OzHadou - Discussion Forum

Hardware, Tech and Setups => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Gamogo on June 01, 2011, 08:40:59 PM

Title: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on June 01, 2011, 08:40:59 PM
The usual shit from me. Trying to find a low input lag screen larger than 24" that performs as well as the BenQ E2400 HD.

I found this today:

http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_listnew.phtml?id=10&id2=143&bid=6&sid=62749

BenQ M2700. 27", $390, x2 HDMI inputs, VGA, sound, etc. Reviews as having low (i.e. none) input lag though I cannot find any solid figures yet.

Does anyone here own one of these?
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Slapper Joe on June 02, 2011, 10:26:39 PM
I believe I know someone who does, but for normal pc gaming purposes.  I'll see if I can get him to run some tests tomorrow.

Edit: Mistake, was the Acer 27"
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: mR_CaESaR on June 02, 2011, 10:57:25 PM
3" enough to warrant a new screen Shane?

A little more $$ and its the 24" CAB! hahahah :) ;)

If anything, if its not 32", for me,its not worth getting a new screen to the now standard 24" BenQ's

@Red_Sense - playing a proper "lagless" monitor is the best thing I ever did. While it doesn't look anywhere near as good as a 50" plasma, it does wonders in terms of your timing, especially if you plan of playing at offfline meets and in the arcades.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: shadowsoul on June 03, 2011, 11:35:22 AM
How come you haven't picked up the viewsonic yet? Lack of speakers and/or screen quality concerns?
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on June 10, 2011, 02:11:46 PM
just got me an Asus VE278Q today (27inch)
will let you know how i go with it once i get my copy of AE
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on June 10, 2011, 02:19:30 PM
just got me an Asus VE278Q today (27inch)
will let you know how i go with it once i get my copy of AE

Ooh, rad. This model was on our short list generated a while back on viable 27' screens. From what I've read these are on par with the BenQ E2400 HDs in terms of response though I'm yet to hear any feedback from SF players.

I'm very curious to hear how this performs :D
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on June 10, 2011, 02:24:09 PM
if ur lucky i might even bring it to AE party ;)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 11, 2011, 10:05:03 PM
Thanks Shane :) Vlad has a M2700HD at home and he says it good but you know what it's like to shop for these badboys. Need some testing :)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 11, 2011, 10:10:24 PM
This was one of the reviews I found

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/monitors/361567/benq-m2700hd

Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 12, 2011, 09:48:41 AM
Back again :)

Found this http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/viewsonic_vx2739wm.htm

Input lag is good and they have it in Aus
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on June 12, 2011, 01:10:37 PM
Yep. The benchmark of course being the legendary E2400 HD.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1363906
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2659/8 <-- check out the BenQ numbers here. They're insanely good. Average is close to 0.

When I was looking at the Viewsonic it seemed to compare pretty closely. I *really* want to pick one up up but I obviously want to test one first xD
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 12, 2011, 01:25:46 PM
I might see if I can take my e2400hd over to Vlads and run the timer on the m2700hd this week.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on June 13, 2011, 01:28:48 AM
After testing it out at HB's place today we can confirm there is no lag in this model
Asus VE278Q
now go go go!
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 13, 2011, 02:01:39 PM
Shanks mate, I'll look into it!
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Burnout on June 13, 2011, 02:54:13 PM
After testing it out at HB's place today we can confirm there is no lag in this model
Asus VE278Q
now go go go!

For Melbourne guys, this is available in MSY

http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf

There is one near Timeout arcade in Box Hill for those SSF4AE players.

I personally shop there for computer parts so i recommend it also.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 14, 2011, 07:07:13 AM
I've read more reviews saying that the asus is good and bad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ2ybrdffkQ
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on June 14, 2011, 07:19:45 AM
wow i could never have picked that? guess hold tight on the monitor then. any other youtube videos for other monitors?
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 14, 2011, 07:58:37 AM
The guy said he was going to do some more tests today (according to his post on srk).  He was using an hdmi splitter which I have read can effect the results. Other reviews i've read have said its on par with the evo monitors. 
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 14, 2011, 09:34:24 AM
I found this lg W2753VC-PF supposedly it was used in the first gods gardand tournament. You can get them here for around $360. 
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on June 14, 2011, 09:45:16 AM
well will bring it out to the AE party to hopefully get some better feedback about it. I havent had any issues with mine it feels like the monitors at OHN, def alot less laggy than my sharp LCD tv.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 14, 2011, 10:07:49 AM
It's probably just fine, Ithink those srk fellas just like testing :-)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 16, 2011, 09:10:19 PM
I would really like to get some feedback for the ASUS and BENQ soon... Need to spend money before tax time  ;D
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: 0746 on June 16, 2011, 09:13:38 PM
how are you guys testing monitor lags? I'll need to test my BenQ G2420HD
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: shadowsoul on June 17, 2011, 02:18:19 AM
That BenQ is pretty much lagless its been at a few tournaments.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on June 17, 2011, 08:53:12 AM
you will find out on sat night or sunday about how goes the monitor
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 17, 2011, 12:01:40 PM
Good stuff! Will be running the stopwatch on the m2700hd tomorrow too ;-)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: moreadon on June 19, 2011, 04:05:51 PM
Well Vlad and I tested the m2700hd against the e2400hd with the stopwatch yesterday. On srgb we pretty much got a constant 20ms. Game mode was 40! We played on it and the e2400hd most of the day and couldn't pick the difference between them. I can upload some pics of you're keen. Very nice monitor btw.

How do you guys rate the asus?
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on June 19, 2011, 04:54:23 PM
no complaints on the 'feel' test
didnt have any equipment to fully test it but you can either go the VE278Q or VE276Q (non led version)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: yoshiwaan on September 08, 2011, 03:10:16 PM
I bought a BenQ g2420HD a year back and haven't looked back. It's got a headphone out jack that I plug in wireless speakers to. It's a great, cheap, not too small and very low lag monitor.

I played a bit of SF4 on my big screen LCD the other day after playing some other game and I couldn't believe how laggy it felt, I didn't think I'd even noticed the difference. Once you move over you'll never look back. My timing also feels the same as at the arcades (although obviously not to online for obvious reasons).
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: shaaaaa on May 29, 2012, 12:21:17 PM
bump for continue of this thread.

now a year late, any better suggestions for say 27/28"?
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: JeyTea on May 31, 2012, 03:10:32 PM
now a year late, any better suggestions for say 27/28"?

I've been following this thread on shoryuken.
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/

But unfortunately the comprehensive list of sub-1 lag display list hasn't been updated since Sep 2011.
And many of the models in the list are no longer available.

For me, the search continues for that perfect lag-less monitor....
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: aadm on June 03, 2012, 06:05:15 PM
Viewsonic VX2739WM 27"

Under 1frame input lag, has speakers.

Umart in Melbourne have them instock by the looks of it.

http://www.umart.com.au/newindex28.phtml?id=10&bid=7&sid=66084
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: findlay_stuart on June 04, 2012, 11:38:24 AM
Viewsonic VX2739WM 27"

Under 1frame input lag, has speakers.

Umart in Melbourne have them instock by the looks of it.

http://www.umart.com.au/newindex28.phtml?id=10&bid=7&sid=66084

I have this one, nice screen.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on June 13, 2012, 12:06:39 AM
I tested the LG E2750 tonight. Its excellent. Comparable to the BenQ E2400 HDs.

These can be had for $300.

http://staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=lg+e2750&spos=3

Edit: Its a 27" LED screen. x1 HDMI, x1 Dsub, x1 DVI inputs. No built in speakers, though obviously has stereo out from the HDMI feed. Touch sensitive controls, external power supply. Decent build quality and nice to look at. By default its very bright though it can be tamed via the controls obviously.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: JeyTea on June 14, 2012, 10:27:45 AM
I tested the LG E2750 tonight. Its excellent. Comparable to the BenQ E2400 HDs.

Are you able to give us the input lag figure? Is it sub-frame (16ms or less)?
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on June 14, 2012, 10:40:58 AM
Yeah, I'd say sub 1. It weighs in a lot faster than the previously recommended Asus 27 ve278Q screens.

I'd say its perhaps 25% behind the BenQ E series screens, which are 5.8 - 7.0ms.

The problem is that there are no concrete recorded stats on these E series screens from LG, which sucks and manufacturers continue to omit input lag specifications.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: JeyTea on June 18, 2012, 04:53:48 PM
Just thought I'd share this.

Purchased an LG W2442PA based on this review.
http://wecravegamestoo.com/forums/gadgetry-electronics-discussion/6732-lg-w2442pa-review.html

Input lag, according to PRAD, is 3ms.
Price was $235 excluding shipping.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: in4war on October 26, 2012, 11:33:24 AM
Are there any monitors that are close or as good as the arcades monitors ?.
I need a new monitor, my old CRT was the best but it decided to die on me. Help us out ppl :)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on October 26, 2012, 12:51:18 PM
Are there any monitors that are close or as good as the arcades monitors ?

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sub-1-frame-hdtv-monitor-input-lag-database.145141/

Right now I'd recommend the BenQ GW2450HM.

I picked three of these up last week for OzHadou and they're the most responsive monitors I've tested so far. $200.

Note that I'm yet to test the BenQ GW2750HM (i.e. the 27" variant) though if the 24s are anything to go buy, these will be by far the best performing 27" screens also. They use the exact same panels (albeit +2") and have weighed in at the same speeds (~5ms) also.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Rip The Jacker on October 26, 2012, 03:30:49 PM
Where do you buy these monitors?
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on October 26, 2012, 03:58:16 PM
Where do you buy these monitors?

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=BenQ+GW2450HM&spos=3
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: in4war on October 26, 2012, 10:36:13 PM
Yo a mate of mine said he'll sell me a asus vw222u for 50 buks. Any 1 know if that asus monitor is good.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: KellyNUTS on October 28, 2012, 02:19:48 PM
http://www.asus.com/Display/LCD_Monitors/VW222U/#specifications

Quote
Response Time:2ms(Gray to Gray)
Id wait to get confirmation from screen master Gamogo, but 2ms GTG is WIN in my book + $50, AWESOME!!

The only drawback is:
Quote
PC Input:DVI-D & D-Sub
but if you can source an X360 VGA cable your back @ AWESOME!!
Probably easy find on ebay? Probably sniff out a set of cheap PC speakers while your there too for some sound.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Glassy123 on October 28, 2012, 07:12:42 PM
Im going to bite the bullet and buy a BenQ GW2450HM this week, tried it in action over the weekend and it was perfect

My plan is to have my xbox set up next to my PC, and to use my xbox i'll just switch the input over with a hdmi splitter (just a cheap 1 selection one)

would that put any type of input latency onto the setup? and is this idea even possible?  ;D
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: KellyNUTS on October 28, 2012, 08:07:21 PM
Im going to bite the bullet and buy a BenQ GW2450HM this week, tried it in action over the weekend and it was perfect

My plan is to have my xbox set up next to my PC, and to use my xbox i'll just switch the input over with a hdmi splitter (just a cheap 1 selection one)

would that put any type of input latency onto the setup? and is this idea even possible?  ;D
I also wanna know this, I always thought it did, but then I dont think tourneys would cause lag for finals?
Will be good to see you back on XBL, I miss smackin around the ol man!  :Kappa:
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on October 28, 2012, 08:16:26 PM
I can't find any data on the VW222u :/

Its important to understand that Grey to Grey/G2G timings have zero bearing on input lag. From a gaming perspective, G2G speeds are a measurement of how quickly the pixel state changes (i.e. containing information or not - or in other words displaying a piece of an image). A fast G2G speed presents minimal image ghosting or trails behind moving images. Today most screens have 2 or 5ms G2T ratings which is perfectly fine for fighting games. Higher (i.e. worse) G2T ratings tend to present themselves with heavy image trails in dark scenes (i.e. where you have constant movement - first person shooters can exhibit this and likewise some movies) which are easily noticeable.*

Input lag is not a specification released by manufacturers. Because of this, manual third party testing needs to be performed with a 0ms CRT used as the control. So far the fastest screens weigh in at around 5ms. The BenQ G series still remains the strongest performers, with the previous E series (no longer sold) comparing much the same 5~7ms). Players who demand execution reliability by way of 1 and 2 frame links tend to notice input lag from screens once you step past 10~12ms. In Australia all organisers are using screens which weigh in at 6-8ms last I paid attention to the models being used.

The flipside to responsive screens is when a player becomes accustomed to playing and learning on a screen which comparatively speaking, lags. The transition to a more responsive screen will be noticeable in a negative way whereby it actually messes up their timing and an adjustment will be required. For some the adjustment is simple, for others its frustrating. I liken it to those who play a lot online and make the transition to offline only to find things feel just that little bit different.

* A good test I use to get a real-world feel for G2G or image trails is to connect the screen to a PC and assign a plain black desktop wallpaper and to drag a Window around that has white contents (such as a blank text editor). This does two things: you can get a feel for the response or the screen for input registers AND you can discern any ghosting and trails from the borders of the window due to the dark background.

Here's another ghosting tester:

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testsoftware/schlieren2.html (Flash)

Though I recommend this application if you're serious about testing your screen(s) ghosting/G2G rating:

http://www.prad.de/download/pixperan_english.zip (Flash driven application)

I should probably put an article together summarising a lot of this stuff as I find myself talking about it a lot. A go-to resource might be handy as the thread on SRK right now is our third iteration and it tends to undergo a lot of derailing. Right now though, the first post with the cited screens and their models is accurate and current and definitely a go-to resource for anyone looking to buy a screen.

Re: splitters, I find a lot of POWERED splitters invoke lag. Not all, but many. Many undergo signal boosting which invokes a delay. Its very minimal, but its something stacked on top. Personally I find unpowered HDMI splitters to do just nicely and these can be had for $10 on eBay. If you're looking to split though because of your PC/console setup, I'd actually recommend outputting from your PC to the screen with DVI (same image quality, just no sound carried across) and use the HDMI port on the screen for your HDMI connected console. This means you can use the screen as a switching device (with no concerns for split image lag or problems) between your two devices. This is how I roll at home and its pretty handy.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Glassy123 on October 28, 2012, 08:57:10 PM
Re: splitters, I find a lot of POWERED splitters invoke lag. Not all, but many. Many undergo signal boosting which invokes a delay. Its very minimal, but its something stacked on top. Personally I find unpowered HDMI splitters to do just nicely and these can be had for $10 on eBay. If you're looking to split though because of your PC/console setup, I'd actually recommend outputting from your PC to the screen with DVI (same image quality, just no sound carried across) and use the HDMI port on the screen for your HDMI connected console. This means you can use the screen as a switching device (with no concerns for split image lag or problems) between your two devices. This is how I roll at home and its pretty handy.

I can't believe I overlooked that, thats the simplest and best solution I think >_< cheers gam gam  ;D
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: KellyNUTS on October 28, 2012, 10:20:45 PM
Glad for Gamogos clarification, I always get something wrong with this latency stuff.
I think I get rickrolled cos of the use of words like: "Response Time"  :-\

Surprised the newer BenQs dont come with 2 HDMI ports anymore, pity for us console folk.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Glassy123 on October 30, 2012, 05:03:54 PM
Well, I bit the bullet and jumped on a  BenQ GW2450HM for $190 from JB.

Great monitor, but I think i'll keep it for my xbox setup, the size of the screen is a little big for my liking, with limited space on my PC table I dosnt really fit.

Lag free is amazing though, can't believe how bad my TV setup was before I tried this.

Cheers gamogo for the recommendation and help =)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Cabjoy on December 24, 2012, 10:02:25 AM
Hey guys, what's the largest BenQ monitor some of you guys have found that has little/no input lag. Looking for a new monitor to play on but I want it to be quite a bit bigger than the one I'm using now. (From memory, around 21" or so)
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on December 24, 2012, 10:22:58 AM
24": http://www.benq.com.au/product/monitor/GW2450HM
27": http://www.benq.com.au/product/monitor/gw2750hm

Both use the same panel tech, so have the same measured input lag (6~8ms) which is actually pretty impressive.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_gw2750hm.htm
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Cabjoy on December 24, 2012, 12:58:54 PM
Cheers mogo, just gotta track down where I could find one post christmas on sale!
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on December 24, 2012, 04:15:47 PM
Best deals I've seen for both models has been (surprisingly) Office Works.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Skepticism on January 02, 2013, 06:08:10 PM
also check staticice fo sho
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Vargus on July 03, 2013, 09:07:42 PM
Hi,

Since I am not an expert at the whole HDTV Input lag topic, I was wondering if the more informed could shed some light on the following...

Is the http://www.displaylag.com/ website, a "good" source of information on HDTV Input Lag Issue?

Or is it inaccurate and should be avoided?

- Vargus

Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Gamogo on July 03, 2013, 11:11:34 PM
Is the http://www.displaylag.com/ website, a "good" source of information on HDTV Input Lag Issue?

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/145141/sub-1-frame-hdtvmonitor-input-lag-database

Better.
Title: Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
Post by: Vargus on October 26, 2013, 07:18:48 PM
Re: Personally I find unpowered HDMI splitters to do just nicely and these can be had for $10 on eBay.

To Gamogo,

1) What is a good unpowered hdmi splitter? where should I get one from? A Link would be appreciated.

I had a few more questions too....

2) Looking at getting a large screen tv preferably 55" but will settle for smaller if that is the only option to meet my requirements, namely low input lag of course.

But I wanted to know if there are any large tvs that size that have no more than (17 milliseconds) ie 1 frame lag or less?

Looking at this thread...

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/55593?threads/the-new-definitive-hdtv-lag-faq.55593/

... it seems that I will have to test them for myself

the thread seems to cater for monitors, overseas model tvs, and PS3. It mentions that a copy of Rock Band 2 with a Guitar and Microphone (not sure if you need both guitar and microphone or if 1 of them is enough) you can do auto calibration test, that will tell you the milliseconds of input delay, well at least for PS3 not sure if the test is also for x360.

Not owning a copy of Rock Band 2 or guitar and microphone for either PS3 or x360, I am uncertain if the investment in all that stuff would be worth it, and if the method of testing is accurate enough on either console.

The only other piece of information I have to go off, is apparently the Sony KDL-55W900A (19 milliseconds delay = just over 1 frame) and Sony KDL-55W802A (17 milliseconds delay = 1 frame exactly) are good choices for large screen tvs. Though the website where I sourced the info may not be as credible as the SRK forum link that Gamogo posted earlier.

Here is that link for everyone's convenience...

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/145141/sub-1-frame-hdtvmonitor-input-lag-database

After checking at www.sony.com.au the Sony KDL-55W802A is not listed, only the KDL55W800A. They may have updated it to the 802A model, but not sure if it has the same or improved specs or if it's worse.

I also noticed that the SRK Thread (the first one I posted) mentions that the way to go would be a commercial grade tv, but not having access to that nor not knowing where I can get one scratches that idea.

3) I will be getting a Benq GW2750hm to play fighting games on, among other uses, such as my PC. However I would much prefer to watch TV shows, Movies and my other gaming on the large screen TV,  I am just trying to also play my fighting games on it as well.

So, where and which unpowered hdmi splitter should I buy? what can I do in terms of testing large TVs? should I invest in the Rock band 2 method or is there an alternate method? Does anyone know any large screen tvs with 1 frame lag or less?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

- Vargus