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General => Other Fighting Games - General Discussion => Topic started by: Kyle (The Guile) on February 14, 2012, 04:15:11 PM

Title: [SFxT] Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on February 14, 2012, 04:15:11 PM
So I finally went and had a read at how the gem system works, how you select them, and how stuff is activated. When I read it, literally all I could think was: "wow, this is going to be impossible to implement in tournaments." With so many options, so MUCH to buy, and the sheer volume avaliable to players (can you imagine players trying to counter-pick gem layouts?), this particular feature seems to have been developed from the ground up to be a nightmare for tournament players.

Anyone have any potential ideas or solutions for the issues that are going to come up? I've seen multiple people on SRK suggest just not using gems, which means essentially we've accepted that a tournament game is different from a normal game. The other suggestion is that only standard gems be allowed, no DLC. Makes sense, but then you have the awkward issue of playing an outdated and imcomplete game. The other thing to consider is how players have to manage thier "gem layouts." Does the winner have to stay with his gem selection?

For example, the easiest one I can think of, is that there was mention of a gem that allowed you to NOT take damage from single hits. Meaning, in reality, that if you ever fight Dhalsim, this is the only gem you pick. But lets say player 1 is fighting player 2's team of Sagat/Guile. Player 1 loses the first game, and then counter picks with Vega/Sim. Player 2 would obviously have to stick to Sagat/Guile, but then does he have the option of picking this "no damage from single hits" gem, which makes the counter pick a lot less effective.

I don't know, I feel the first couple of tournaments are going to be a bit of a mess. People have compared this to LoL, and how you have setups in that games, but that's a really silly comparrison, because LoL games take 25-50 minutes, and there is a full 2-5 minutes of pre-time before each game, even in casuals. The other comparrison is Magic the Gathering, which is an even sillier comparrioson, because the ONLY active element in Magic is the cards (which people keep comparring to gems, for some reason.)

Also "gems" sounds really stupid to say out loud.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Burnout on February 14, 2012, 05:11:42 PM
im more worried about vega cuz hes more broken then any gem
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 14, 2012, 06:54:07 PM
Just FYI there is a tournament patch coming after the release of the game which is suppose to streamline the gem selection process (I would guess that would be on the character select screen than..) as well as add a couple of other tournament friendly things.

Quote
For example, the easiest one I can think of, is that there was mention of a gem that allowed you to NOT take damage from single hits. Meaning, in reality, that if you ever fight Dhalsim, this is the only gem you pick. But lets say player 1 is fighting player 2's team of Sagat/Guile. Player 1 loses the first game, and then counter picks with Vega/Sim. Player 2 would obviously have to stick to Sagat/Guile, but then does he have the option of picking this "no damage from single hits" gem, which makes the counter pick a lot less effective.

Does not exist, I'm guessing you heard or whoever told you misunderstood Ultradavid. Apparently he went on a rant about a certain gem because Dhalsim had no normal that does over 100 damage. Needless to say, he got corrected, even his "I meant this" version was still pretty fucked up, like it ignores blockstun or something.

DLC gems should be banned from a pure logistics viewpoint, DLC characters get banned all the time so it's the same as that except not as meaningful since a character is far more of a big deal than any of these gems.

I think we should play with gems, America and everyone would look silly if they banned gems and than in December an AE for this comes out and Japan plays with gems with no problem. Question is do we stick with the inbuilt presets (for time reasons) if the tournament patch is only a few months away?

Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Burnout on February 14, 2012, 07:16:48 PM
gems were never the issue at the first place, its like complaining that there are lifebars in a fighting game. Its more of the balance of players/trolls ratio of a certain product and SFxT is the product we're discussing here.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Gamogo on February 15, 2012, 12:40:38 AM
As someone who runs tournaments and local gatherings with the YSB group in Sydney, DLC is a serious kick in the balls for us. Its expensive, its annoying, it creates work, its clumsily implemented.

SFxT checks all the nightmarish boxes for organisers and it also has the added complication of console specific characters. I'm very curious to see how this tournament add-on pans out, because right now SFxT strikes me as an online only game until some standards are nailed down that organisers can target for their systems.

I had a good chat to Seth about tournament logistics with something as simple as SFIV > Super > AE and MVC and its various DLC options and how even they were a pain in the balls. SFxT compared to this is just obscene so far though he definitely put a lot of stock in and flexed some serious spin with this tournament pack so I'm curious to see what the solution it brings to the table is. I'm thinking a cut back 3 choice powerup/weighting system (i.e. power, speed, assist) to apply to characters and away you go.

Running brackets with oddball gem load-outs for each player is going to get real tedious real fast. I'm holding judgement until I have the final game + this tournament pack however as I suspect there's a little more to be explained yet.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 15, 2012, 01:24:26 AM
SFxT checks all the nightmarish boxes for organisers and it also has the added complication of console specific characters.

How is this a complication? From what I've seen console exclusive characters are pretty much always banned, the Soul Calibur 2 system exclusives, Kratos in MK9 etc. Not to mention that in Australia isn't nearly every tournament primarily run on Xbox? It seems a no brainer to me... and Mr Wizard already banned them for Evo and that goes for Kratos again as well as any future console exclusive.

DLC gems should be banned, this is pre order exclusives so it could take months for them to even become normal DLC, only people who preordered from Best Buy in America have a certain character in Soul Calibur V, I don't think his actual DLC release date has even been mentioned yet.

Only issue I see day 1 is gem selection, I really don't see what's wrong with sticking with presets if you're hellbent on saving time, maybe after a few weeks when people know what gems they want from experience.. than let them choose.. but if a tournament patch is coming within a months time of release I don't see any harm in just sticking with presets. If you find a broken combination.. save that shit for nationals.

Anyway for the tournament patch did he actually tell you anything worth mentioning or was it mainly saying it was good without actually telling you why? Still if I put my tin foil hat on I'll say Capcom worked on an gem selection screen for the arcade version and have just brought it forward to get patched into the initial console release.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Gamogo on February 15, 2012, 10:22:51 AM
How is this a complication? From what I've seen console exclusive characters are pretty much always banned, the Soul Calibur 2 system exclusives, Kratos in MK9 etc. Not to mention that in Australia isn't nearly every tournament primarily run on Xbox? It seems a no brainer to me... and Mr Wizard already banned them for Evo and that goes for Kratos again as well as any future console exclusive.

In the strictest sense it isn't for the reasons you explained. But my point is that Capcom and other derpy developers keep pulling this shit which translates to wasted dev time and character slots. I see these unique characters as nothing more than throw away marketing tools that serve shallow purposes. I'd have much more respect for them if they instead used the time and energy to create these characters instead on stock game features for all to enjoy irrespective of platform.

Xbox is the platform tournaments and so on gravitate to for us, but that still isn't a valid justification for this crap and is kinda beside the point. Fighting games have a sizeable chunk of their success rooted in the arcade founded origins of local competition and that is growing exponentially. Despite this, Capcom (of all people!) continue to derp around with online focused nonsense or disregard design decisions that factor in both offline and online play as well as they could.

I respect them identifying with a growing casual crowd of online players but I strongly feel they could better execute design decisions that cater equally well to both offline and off play. Like I said though, Seth agreed with my points when we discussed this stuff and shared the same concerns and revealed that it was something they discussed at length internally, which is why I am eager to see their 'solution' of sorts to a widely debated issue. He didn't give specifics (company man mode kicked in when I pried) which wasn't expected as it is yet to be formally announced and detailed though he said "it will address many of the concerns tournament organisers - myself included, as I am on the EVO board - have with the game for offline play." Take that as you will. I translated it as fluff and in reality I am expecting something kinda half baked. I do have a little confidence in them identifying with small things (char select button configs, an anti accidental pause mechanism, fast rematch options and so on) however so perhaps they are on the right track.

Personally I take the position that any Capcom game that does not receive an arcade release is going to be heavily subjected to the growing trends with DLC and online play. Interestingly Marvel only really dipped a toe in here (2 DLC chars) though with SFxT it seems like they might be going the whole hog.

Time will tell. SFxT is going to be an interesting release and that's without even factoring in the actual game itself.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 15, 2012, 03:22:26 PM
In the strictest sense it isn't for the reasons you explained. But my point is that Capcom and other derpy developers keep pulling this shit which translates to wasted dev time and character slots. I see these unique characters as nothing more than throw away marketing tools that serve shallow purposes. I'd have much more respect for them if they instead used the time and energy to create these characters instead on stock game features for all to enjoy irrespective of platform.

But this isn't addition by subtraction, just because they don't spend time on 5 characters (really 3 since 2 are clones) doesn't mean you'll get more features. The guys coding and designing the characters won't be the same as whoever came up with scramble mode or whoever is working on a better than SFIV replay system etc. Sony pay for this development time as well...

Quote
Xbox is the platform tournaments and so on gravitate to for us, but that still isn't a valid justification for this crap and is kinda beside the point. Fighting games have a sizeable chunk of their success rooted in the arcade founded origins of local competition and that is growing exponentially. Despite this, Capcom (of all people!) continue to derp around with online focused nonsense or disregard design decisions that factor in both offline and online play as well as they could.

Dude arcades aren't growing, they're dying for the most part, not to mention near non-existent in the biggest market America. I honestly don't think Street Fighter V will be released in the arcades, this is most definitely a next gen title and will be developed for Xbox720/PS4/WiiU. Harada the head for Tekken says that his Tekken x Streetfighter might not even get an arcade release... and this is from a franchise that is far stronger in arcades across South East Asia than SF period

It doesn't help that SFIV units cost a shit load in the arcades (Remember those TRF tournaments? They never even upgraded their SFIV machine to Super because it wasn't worth it) and even than Japan would rather play something like Gundam Extreme VS (the series was started by Capcom...) which is far more popular in the arcades as well as on console.

SFIV sold 3.1 million, how many of that do you think played it in an arcade? How many in a tournament? You may not like the focus on online but its clearly the right thing for Capcom as a company to do, especially when it gets outperformed by so many other games in the arcade.

In 2015 where do you see arcades?

Quote
Personally I take the position that any Capcom game that does not receive an arcade release is going to be heavily subjected to the growing trends with DLC and online play. Interestingly Marvel only really dipped a toe in here (2 DLC chars) though with SFxT it seems like they might be going the whole hog.

Probably because the game sold to customer shit even though they shipped their 2 million copies, and than all the DLC they did bombed. Easy to see why....

Jill - Popular character, yet they include her most despised version.
Shuma  - 99% of people who bought MVC3 would think to themselves, who the fuck is Shuma?
Alt Costumes - 1 color are you fucking kidding me? Oh you're playing against the only other person in the world who bought the same DLC and uses your characters? Too bad, default costume for you.
Shadow Battles - What tosser thought these were going to sell?
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: CPS2 on February 15, 2012, 03:38:40 PM
Sorry this is bugging me a bit. (http://grammartips.homestead.com/than.html)
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Gamogo on February 15, 2012, 04:14:44 PM
Dude, that linked site contains Malware.

D:
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Gamogo on February 15, 2012, 04:48:23 PM
A whole bunch of stuff.

Agreed, well put. Fighting games as a whole are undergoing a major shift in how they are presented to the player with the traditional view (local tournaments, cut and dry options) of them being upset in many ways with DLC and the growing online focus. The heavily rooted traditions the fighting game community has results in many being hostile to these changes, and in many cases for good reasons. It also doesn't help (the animosity) that Capcom are considered the standard or yardstick for fighting games.

I agree that at the end of all this that Capcom are a business and given the direction console (and in many cases PC now also) game development is headed, they'd be sacrificing a lot of potential sales by sticking to traditional guns and failing to hop aboard the trends emerging now that the arcade model is slipping away as expected. Such is life, they're a business.

Regardless, DLC (and other bolt-on content) remains a pain in the balls because for fighting game players there will always be a local community for the foreseeable future which translates to playing offline and often. DLC combined with DRM makes things even more hellish for us, especially on the Xbox platform. I feel this will result in potential community playerbase splits or stripped back offline 'only' ways to play the game if DLC and customisation becomes a shore to replicate in a room of players offline compared to the comfort of playing at home online. Will still be it fun though? Hell, probably. Especially if you're an online only kind of player - SFxT will be tonnes of fun.

The fondness I have for games that have arcade releases isn't the actual arcade experience per se, its moreso the design ethic that goes into creating an arcade game that comes across in subsequent console ports. They strike me as having a more solid and thorough effort in their overall design and typically are stripped back and simple. There's an elegance to them. Console oriented titles get bloated and fluffy and don't have the same feel to them - at least to me. Case in point, consider vanilla SFIV. A solid fighter with a focused direction for the arcade. Subsequent updates instead were (obviously) console oriented and with them came a slip in production design, bloat and feature creep that felt incomplete and washed out until AE 2012 which might almost be too little, too late. Again, these are just my sentiments but I see and feel a clear distinction between arcade oriented titles and what are clearly console geared titles. There's a charm to arcade games that I can't quite put a finger on that is 'missing' from the latter.

SFxT is I am interested in because it marks the beginning of a lot changes for Capcom in the fighting game arena. I feel like I am more interested in what this game changes for the genre and expectations of players as a whole rather than the actual game itself.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 15, 2012, 05:24:52 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/0m9Gn.png)

If you can lug around an arcade stick.... Wonder how it will be used though, just simply plug it in and when you select your character and on the gem selection part where you select presets maybe it will have USB 1, USB 2 or whatever?

Of course a problem is that you would need 4 usb slots with 2 sticks and usb drives... IIRC the new Xbox and the old PS3 are fine but the old Xboxes and the new PS3 slim don't have enough slots? Still this might only be part of the solution and if implemented well enough could be a nice feature. If it can save some preset teams, outfits, colors, gems, button config it would save some time.. hopefully Capcom aren't just using this feature solely for gems.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on February 15, 2012, 05:42:56 PM
Problem: what if the tournament is run on a PS3, and you have an Xbox, can you still use your stick? Maybe we'll be seeing "dual modded" USB ports, lol.

Additional problems: gems are meant to be an ACTIVE part of gameplay, meaning that your gem layout will change to match opponents, and, I'd imagine, characters. Pre-selected load outs are fine if thats all that people are going to use, but as a person who plays like, 10 Marvel characters and changes assists all the time, I don't like it one bit.

I honestly think the real solution to this is that there is gonna be some stupid "gem setup" area with a console dedicated to people coming and selecting thier teams and layouts and whatnot.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on February 15, 2012, 05:58:21 PM
Also, Evo has already declared this game as part of thier lineup (without a single tournament being held...), so, at least for this year, tournament organisers are going to have to find a way to include this game in their lineup.

I cannot think of a single solution that doesn't make this the longest running game in history, and not because of gameplay, lol.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Ziggy on February 15, 2012, 06:06:44 PM
If a company won't do button configs right there's next to zero chance of them doing anything else right.

We've had a chance to play it and we all know that, as it stands right now, gem config sucks. There's a promised "tournament mode" but should people invest in a competitive game upfront based on promised features coming down the DLC-pipe at an undisclosed date?

It's probably time to kick back and make Capcom beg for our approval instead of the other way around. People made games like MvC2 last over 10 years with zero revisions or DLC, not to mention next to no support from Capcom themselves. SF4 might be getting long in the tooth but it's still very popular and not all that old. There's really no reason to embrace SFxT as a major tournament game just because it's new. If SFxT isn't suitable for competitive play then I doubt it'll last long in that setting.

Plenty of "attractive/new" fighting games were "stillborn" in the tournament scene for that very reason. For example MS put plenty of money behind DOA4 but it never had any real traction as a serious tournament game. It would be sad if something as big as SFxT wound up in that class but honestly if it happens it'll be entirely Capcom's fault.

Making SFxT decent should be a no-brainer. Few people  had any problems until Ono said "gems". It's been hard to take it seriously ever since. Even if people play the thing and say "gems are OK" that does nothing to counter the tournament problems around gems. It's a horrible situation for the game to be in and Capcom chose to put it there. I see no reason why the competitive community should get involved with SFxT, but they're buying up a lot of support preemptively e.g. Evo, Cross Assault. I'm reminded of FigJam - a terrible game that many people in Japan played because it was in SBO, and then dropped as soon as SBO was over because of how horrible it was. Could SFxT suffer the same fate just because of some dumb anti-tournament design decisions?

BTW DOA4 was at Evo too. Games can push their way into Evo and still wind up "dead on arrival".
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 15, 2012, 06:18:23 PM
IIRC you can set up multiple presets for every single character in the game. Not sure on the limit but it should be ample.

So you can have your

Rushdown Ryu Gem setup
Zoner Ryu Gem setup
Speed Ryu
Pandora setup Ryu etc

If this saves your entire gem setup than it shouldn't be a problem, provided you bothered to set them up in the first place. Basically imagine if you had all 10-15 variations of your teams as selectable characters, and when you choose one you can flick through the 4-5 assist variations for that team. Wouldn't spending the 10 or so minutes doing that save you time in the long run? As long as everyone else did the same thing of course...

Personally I hope this takes off, it could kill button configs for good and this sorta feature has been missing from the Tekken games as of late.

Best case scenario you plug in your stick, plug in the usb, choose your characters which are set to your colors/costume of choice by default, choose the correct gem setup for the matchup and jump straight in. Obviously there is problems for people with access to only one of the systems but at least it's a step forward. How much time do we see wasted on streams and @ tournaments as people button config, select the right colors (gotta have those matching outfits... and/or your color and costume...). Also the benefits are not just for tournaments, I can grab my hori and my usb stick, go to my friends house and plug them in and I don't have to do anything. It would be like if I was playing from my own console.

Also, Evo has already declared this game as part of thier lineup (without a single tournament being held...), so, at least for this year, tournament organisers are going to have to find a way to include this game in their lineup.

Well Soul Calibur 5 was the same and that will be a far smaller game than SFxTK.... and if Tekken Tag 2 is a late December release and they anounce Evo 2k13 at the same time as this years.. the same thing will happen.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Gamogo on February 15, 2012, 06:40:43 PM
lol, awesome. That USB dongle is exactly what I was describing as a potential option a few weeks back in #Capcom. Its pretty weird to see it look like a possible solution. Very cool.

This would be like a beefed up Battlecard system if they can pull it off. Not only could your wins/losses be stored but also your button config and DLC/gem loadouts. Awesome. Curious to see how the hardware platforms come to the party though. The PS3's USB interface has few roadblocks, though Microsoft's has a few proprietary hooks in it. A single solution dongle for both systems would be awesome but I guess separate dongles could work also. Very interesting!
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 15, 2012, 07:12:55 PM
I can already see Markman @ tournaments selling Capcom approved universal dongles for this game, with the gem setups favored by Team Madkatz players Daigo, Mago and Tokido! (We'll be copying them anyway!)
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: GodlyEffect on February 15, 2012, 10:02:13 PM
KoF can take time choosing team and deciding order of the team. Training mode/playing helped people find out which characters they want on their team.
SFIV can take time choosing ultra and doing button checks. Training mode/playing helped people decide which Ultra they prefer for match up.
UMvC3 can take time selecting character order and assists. Training mode/playing helped people find which assist and order worked for them.
SFxT will take time selecting team and gems loadout. Training mode/playing will probably help people find which characters they want to use, and this USB support will help make Gem selection quicker.
First few tournaments are always going to be rough to run due to unfamiliarity but the more it's played the faster people become with their selections based on how they play/what works for them. Of course, I am not a tournament organiser.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Gamogo on February 16, 2012, 07:31:16 AM
UNABLE TO READ FROM ATTACHED DEVICE.

:<
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: HeartProfessor / ByeBi / Tokyonative on February 16, 2012, 09:09:07 AM
I can already see Markman @ tournaments selling Capcom approved universal dongles for this game, with the gem setups favored by Team Madkatz players Daigo, Mago and Tokido! (We'll be copying them anyway!)

What Madkatz or someone needs to do is come up wth a fightstick that has built in flash memory to save your gay-ass "gem" settings.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 16, 2012, 04:25:21 PM
UNABLE TO READ FROM ATTACHED DEVICE.

:<

It's cool, they can just borrow someone elses usb sticks since everyone will netdeck.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Burnout on February 16, 2012, 06:29:33 PM
Then I took a defence gem to the knee
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: swiftoxic on February 18, 2012, 01:35:46 PM
in the tournements couldent you just not use no gems at all.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: CPS2 on February 18, 2012, 03:29:22 PM
in the tournements couldent you just not use no gems at all.

Yep you can just not equip any gems. Seems like the obvious solution to run with until all the usb hub stuff looks viable.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Tim on February 18, 2012, 06:23:04 PM
Use the default gem loadouts.

Problem solved.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: swiftoxic on February 19, 2012, 08:41:55 PM
Use the default gem loadouts.

Problem solved.
Or just none at all the make it balanced i hate the gem idea lol
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 19, 2012, 08:59:08 PM
The game is meant to be played with gems, if this gets an arcade release @ the end of the year you'll be seeing this played in Japan with gems, you'll see it @ SBO with gems and one things for sure you'll be fighting people online with gems.

I think gems are fine, they let you tailor characters your playstyle (do I make Lili even more of a glass cannon or do I give her some defense?) but not to the extend of CVS2 Grooves.

Edit - Seeing a DP Tag by Ryu get both characters punished in the Top 8 for WCG... good shit.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: kc on February 27, 2012, 01:08:42 PM
UNABLE TO READ FROM ATTACHED DEVICE.

:<

That's exactly what I was thinking. Imagine how many issues there'll be plugging and unplugging any kind of storage device.

It's kind of funny in some ways, 'cos I find the whole thing massively confusing. When I mention to people that I'm already confused they say "Don't stress, it won't make that much of a difference," which makes me wonder why bother in the first place then?

I really want to love this game, and I'm excited to start on a level playing field... but I suspect it will do my head in. Is there a 'stop gem confusion' gem? Or is that DLC?
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: GodlyEffect on February 27, 2012, 03:54:31 PM
UNABLE TO READ FROM ATTACHED DEVICE.

:<

That's exactly what I was thinking. Imagine how many issues there'll be plugging and unplugging any kind of storage device.

It's kind of funny in some ways, 'cos I find the whole thing massively confusing. When I mention to people that I'm already confused they say "Don't stress, it won't make that much of a difference," which makes me wonder why bother in the first place then?

I really want to love this game, and I'm excited to start on a level playing field... but I suspect it will do my head in. Is there a 'stop gem confusion' gem? Or is that DLC?
It's one of the assist gems you get, right between blocking and teching gems..
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on February 27, 2012, 07:52:00 PM
It's kind of funny in some ways, 'cos I find the whole thing massively confusing. When I mention to people that I'm already confused they say "Don't stress, it won't make that much of a difference," which makes me wonder why bother in the first place then?

I really want to love this game, and I'm excited to start on a level playing field... but I suspect it will do my head in. Is there a 'stop gem confusion' gem? Or is that DLC?

Haven't you ever talked to someone who uses your character and had different ideas on how you would improve them? Maybe you think Cammy should have more life, maybe your friend who uses Cammy wants more dmg, now gems let you do what you want to suit your play style.

With the right gems you make a 50% combo you get hit by into a 30% one, you can make your 500 dmg pandora combo into one over 700. Gems will make a difference, they just aren't game changers like Ultras and X-Factor. Top players like Ricky Ortiz and Flash Metriod seemed to like the gem options and really like the game itself... and this was on FGTV not Cross Assault, if they thought the game was wack they would say so on FGTV.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: kc on February 28, 2012, 10:12:45 AM
It's kind of funny in some ways, 'cos I find the whole thing massively confusing. When I mention to people that I'm already confused they say "Don't stress, it won't make that much of a difference," which makes me wonder why bother in the first place then?

I really want to love this game, and I'm excited to start on a level playing field... but I suspect it will do my head in. Is there a 'stop gem confusion' gem? Or is that DLC?

Haven't you ever talked to someone who uses your character and had different ideas on how you would improve them? Maybe you think Cammy should have more life, maybe your friend who uses Cammy wants more dmg, now gems let you do what you want to suit your play style.

With the right gems you make a 50% combo you get hit by into a 30% one, you can make your 500 dmg pandora combo into one over 700. Gems will make a difference, they just aren't game changers like Ultras and X-Factor. Top players like Ricky Ortiz and Flash Metriod seemed to like the gem options and really like the game itself... and this was on FGTV not Cross Assault, if they thought the game was wack they would say so on FGTV.

I hear you, it makes sense to be able to dial in a character, I just find it all a touch confusing at this stage. Once we all get our hands on it I'm sure it'll be clearer. Either that or we'll all just copy what the pros are doing.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Glassy123 on February 28, 2012, 11:06:23 AM
Haven't you ever talked to someone who uses your character and had different ideas on how you would improve them? Maybe you think Cammy should have more life, maybe your friend who uses Cammy wants more dmg, now gems let you do what you want to suit your play style.


very good analogy, i think this is the sole reason why these gems well work
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: swiftoxic on March 01, 2012, 03:04:34 AM
 watched Gootecks use poisen and he selected all defensive gems im guessing most female characters have lower health?.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: neon on March 01, 2012, 03:37:56 AM
I think Gootecks clearly just assumes women are weak and need all the help they can get.  ::)


But seriously no, his point char is Poison and what his aim is to live long as he can to try and work out any weakness in the enemy team and try to create openings with her, so he gave defensive gem's to suit this try and outlast approach with his point character to give himself more time to create the opportunity for the other charecter to come in and do some damage.

I think he explained that in one of his episodes.

Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: swiftoxic on March 01, 2012, 03:47:58 AM
I think Gootecks clearly just assumes women are weak and need all the help they can get.  ::)


But seriously no, his point char is Poison and what his aim is to live long as he can to try and work out any weakness in the enemy team and try to create openings with her, so he gave defensive gem's to suit this try and outlast approach with his point character to give himself more time to create the opportunity for the other charecter to come in and do some damage.

I think he explained that in one of his episodes.
yeah he did thats were i got it from lol guess so
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: findlay_stuart on March 01, 2012, 05:43:56 AM
snip
[/qoute]

Good points but I think that analogy has to work both way's. A character already good at something plus adding on a gem that makes him even better at that something has as much potential to cause imbalance as it does balance.

I'm looking forward to trying the system out, I'm not sold on all the "don't worry" talk just yet. With so many character/gem combinations something’s going to go tits up, and it'll be on You tube 6 minutes after launch.




Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Timic83 on March 01, 2012, 11:42:20 AM
watched Gootecks use poisen and he selected all defensive gems im guessing most female characters have lower health?.

poison isn't a female character ::)
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on March 01, 2012, 06:03:54 PM
Hmm for gem selection in tournaments....

Pre Tournament Patch

Default Gem setups only. (Attack, Speed, Defense etc)

After Tournament Patch (Assuming the USB stick is the only solution offered for gem selection)

USB Stick, if no USB stick supplied you have to choose from default gem setups.

Personally I think this is the best way to go about it, rather silly to have no gems @ all before the tournament patch. People will be playing online and at home with gems, it's quick and it keeps the gem system in place. For after patch it rewards the people who can bothered to bring their setups on a USB stick in 2 ways, they get to use their setup and secondly anyone they play who can't be fucked to spend a minute copying their setup and than bringing it on a small stick that can fit in any pocket is forced to use default setups. (Which that far into the game might be found lacking)
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: GodlyEffect on March 01, 2012, 09:06:53 PM
Hmm for gem selection in tournaments....

Pre Tournament Patch

Default Gem setups only. (Attack, Speed, Defense etc)

After Tournament Patch (Assuming the USB stick is the only solution offered for gem selection)

USB Stick, if no USB stick supplied you have to choose from default gem setups.

Personally I think this is the best way to go about it, rather silly to have no gems @ all before the tournament patch. People will be playing online and at home with gems, it's quick and it keeps the gem system in place. For after patch it rewards the people who can bothered to bring their setups on a USB stick in 2 ways, they get to use their setup and secondly anyone they play who can't be fucked to spend a minute copying their setup and than bringing it on a small stick that can fit in any pocket is forced to use default setups. (Which that far into the game might be found lacking)
If you can bring a stick...you can bring a USB stick...one can fit inside the other if it's that hard. :P
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Folks on March 05, 2012, 10:02:43 PM
so will the tournament standard be 2v2?
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on March 06, 2012, 11:34:27 AM
so will the tournament standard be 2v2?

God I hope not :/
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Millbones on March 06, 2012, 11:51:50 AM
gems chen
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Folks on March 06, 2012, 04:53:13 PM
so will the tournament standard be 2v2?

God I hope not :/

but isnt it hype as?
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: BeefyGoodness on March 09, 2012, 12:07:51 PM
The feedback for the first couple of big tourneys (Big Two, WNF) has been to expect very long game times. 

The time taken for the tourneys was considerably longer than AE so tourney organisers should be taking this into account.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Tom on March 09, 2012, 12:17:10 PM
The feedback for the first couple of big tourneys (Big Two, WNF) has been to expect very long game times. 

The time taken for the tourneys was considerably longer than AE so tourney organisers should be taking this into account.

And that was with Gems turned off wasn't it?

I can't see how AE, UMvC3 and SFxT are all going  to fit into 2 day tournament schedules.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on March 09, 2012, 12:52:02 PM
AE's gonna get the drop. I can't see it staying viable as a major game.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Mooseking on March 09, 2012, 01:23:20 PM
Same way 3s stayed viable when CVS2 dropped.

People have spent way too much time on it to just let it go, will likely be pursued heavily by those who don't enjoy SFxTK mechanics.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on March 09, 2012, 01:54:23 PM
Same way 3s stayed viable when CVS2 dropped.

People have spent way too much time on it to just let it go, will likely be pursued heavily by those who don't enjoy SFxTK mechanics.

Interesting point.

But then the problem still remain of having to run 4 and XTekken at the same time. XTekken is going to be a nightmare for tournaments. DLC; Gems and a very, very long time to play (load times don't help at all.)
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Mooseking on March 09, 2012, 02:07:43 PM
I feel the same way.

This game while fun for players is looking to be a logistical nightmare for tournament operators.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on March 09, 2012, 06:20:07 PM
How about we make it a forced 2v2? We literally half tournament time by doing that.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: MasterCYl on March 10, 2012, 02:59:05 AM
It's early days but to allow anything but default gems, if you allow gems at all, with the current method of configuring them is a massive time sink and possibly a money sink for the organisers.

Tourney machines will need to have purchased all legal DLC characters on each touney setup and all possible Gems. And every time two new players step up to the stick, they will need to configure their characters, and do it all again should they decide to alter their teams in a best of three. I'd wager under the current format, I could complete a best of three match, three round SF4:AE game before a single match of SFxT could be configured for both players and completed.

Right now the great white hope is the fangdangled Tourney system. In the mean time we'll adapt as best we can until we have a standard to work from.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: BeefyGoodness on March 20, 2012, 01:33:02 PM
The preview of the tourney system seems to not be as complete a solution for tourney organisers as hoped.

Reading the comments of the stream link from shoryuken http://shoryuken.com/2012/03/19/capcom-showcasing-street-fighter-x-tekkens-tournament-mode-discussing-dlc-plans-live-today-at-4-pm-pst-7-pm-est/
sees Alex Jebailey good-humouredly 'Jebanning' gems from the upcoming CEO tourney.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 20, 2012, 02:09:52 PM
Would it be easier to make the Tournament standard for SFxT using the factory default gem setups rather than No Gems? In using that, you can choose from the two pre-created gem loadouts for each character only, and you wouldn't need to manually un-assign the gems for every character beforehand. It would also allow the players use of Power/Speed gems etc which might help the time-out issue?
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: aadm on March 20, 2012, 04:48:38 PM
Just remove gems, problem solved.
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: ffff on March 20, 2012, 05:51:57 PM
Just remove gems, problem solved.

Just remove game from tournament, problem solved...
Title: Re: Potential tournament issues with this game
Post by: Westlo on March 20, 2012, 10:49:03 PM
Would it be easier to make the Tournament standard for SFxT using the factory default gem setups rather than No Gems? In using that, you can choose from the two pre-created gem loadouts for each character only, and you wouldn't need to manually un-assign the gems for every character beforehand. It would also allow the players use of Power/Speed gems etc which might help the time-out issue?

Those default loadouts suck though.. might as well run with no gems.