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General => Street Fighter IV - General Discussion => Topic started by: Heavy Weapons on August 10, 2012, 02:31:39 AM

Title: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 10, 2012, 02:31:39 AM
There's some pretty big rumors floating around right now about capcom reworking ssf4ae once again. Apparently some japanese players have spoken about it. But it remains a mystery for the minute. Here's a tweet from ryan hart

"Ok guys,what would you say if I said SSF4 AE 2013? The question is,do we need a re-balance or is 2012 ok?What would you change if you could?" It's rumored that he has spoken to some japanese players that usually know whats happening before the general fgc.

I personally welcome them putting more effort into the game as i feel its a great game and could be even better with some changes...


What you guys think? Any predictions or changes you'd like to see?

Buff sagat bitches!
  :dpf: :p:
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: AtomicX on August 09, 2012, 07:20:23 PM
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I like 2012 the way it is, only changes I would like is add Rolento, Hugo, Poison, Elena and others.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 10, 2012, 03:21:40 AM
imo seth is stupid id like to see him nerfed slightly to make him not so idiotic
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 10, 2012, 03:29:13 AM
Dudley needs 7 frame overhead, let's face it, Duds only has high low, make it count. Less knockback on st.hk CH.

Rufus needs 1000 stun, he is fat.

Guile needs 400 damage Sonic hurricane. Yes, a defense driven character also deserves a comeback mechanic.

Cammy needs damage nerf. Blockstun/Hitstun nerf on divekicks.

Viper needs increased recovery on seismo. She can jump cancel. If she commits I want to see her get blown up sky high. Less block stun on burn kicks.

Seth needs 800 stun.

Zangief needs to be deleted and replaced with Alex.

Urien, Q need in.

I'm biased.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: thirdeye (Ikuya) on August 10, 2012, 03:34:31 AM
fatman is easy to tired, so Rufus 900 stun makes sense ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 10, 2012, 03:42:11 AM
Very well, 900 stun for 1100 stamina. He was bullied his whole life and beaten with ugly sticks, his ability to soak damage should be unparalleled. Lazy tank.

I never knew the Vanilla numbers but wasn't he like 1200 stamina? lol!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on August 10, 2012, 07:57:52 AM
Big news if true.

Some characters that range from low to mid high tier are right on the cusp of being overpowered or just completely damaged if the wrong nerf or buff were applied. I just hope they get it right with the changes and not some bullshit change that nobody cared about like they did in 2012 for some characters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on August 10, 2012, 09:53:44 AM
Capcom Unity spoke briefly about this recently also. They encouraged people to make some noise so the higher ups could see how keen people are to have the game revisited.

Thing is, I don't think it should be - at least with respect to balance. 2012 is a very balanced game as it stands currently and if character balance was to be looked at I'd argue perhaps only Seth and Viper should be look at with any serious degree of scrutiny. There's only so much spit and polish you can apply before you start damaging the paintwork in my opinion and Capcom could do damage to the game if they got too gung-ho.

However, I do think it could be revisited from a function stand point:

- Permit lobby rematches for 2 player games
- Allow training mode sessions to accept ranked or endless challengers rather than just arcade mode
- Allow friends to participate in training mode sessions online
- Provide an offline lag simulator ala Marvel
- Hitbox displays in training mode option
- Extended record buffer options in training mode (i.e. 10 sec, 30 sec, 60 sec)
- Audible tone for counterhits + enlarged 'counterhit' text notification
- True music/effects mute option
- Bring back thumbs up/thumbs down guy from the lobbies!
- Re-instate Championship mode? I quite liked that from Vanilla.
- Button config on player select screen + implement HDR style button config
- Offline ladder/tournament generation. For example, SSF2 had this on consoles back in the 90s. Why not today?
- Offline match record. Why is this an online only feature?
- Extended start button input registers to prevent accidental pauses during matches

I'd really like to see ALL characters receive at least one NEW move if they seriously revisit the game though. Something to freshen it up.
It was really fun finding the new stuff in ST back in the day when it came out because SF2 had been somewhat static with respect to moves for years. ST dropped and suddenly we had new moves scattered all over the place - the addition of command normals, juggles and overheads for example was huge. A new move for each character in IV specifically targeted at addressing a potential problem in a character's worst matchup would be very cool. At the very least it would breathe a bit of life into things. Imagine ken received his knee-bash? Fuerte had a ground based command throw? Bison an overhead normal?

I'd also like to see Capcom experiment with some elements that don't impact the gameplay. One being character settings preferences. By this I mean you get to choose the preferred settings for your opponent's character, irrespective of their chosen colour or costume. So say for example you could force (much like say, character voice languages) predefined character colours and costumes to avoid Blanka's garish (and hitbox obscuring alts) or those irritating stencil colours (colour 12?). Your opponent would see their chosen costume, just on your end it would be set to your preference.

Secondly I'd really like to see Capcom revisit that USB dongle idea they had for SFxT's gem management albeit for SFIV. On the USB dongles they could not only store BP and PP, but also button configs, preferred character colours, names, costumes, win/lose stats, total games, etc - basically just like the gamecards used in Japan. I feel this could work quite well - you could also take it to locals/tournies and not only record your results, but also take with you your button config ready to roll. Its entirely possible it could retain recorded match buffers as the file sizes for the playback data is actually very tiny.

Of course, Capcom are very close-minded when it comes to this kind of thing and have revealed themselves to be pretty third rate developers in this arena so I doubt none of this will ever see the light of day.

I'd drop $10 if these features were released as DLC though. Perhaps that's the incentive they need.

Too much text, I blame coffee. Sorry Spencer.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Niah on August 10, 2012, 10:02:45 AM
Big news if true.

Some characters that range from low to mid high tier are right on the cusp of being overpowered or just completely damaged if the wrong nerf or buff were applied. I just hope they get it right with the changes and not some bullshit change that nobody cared about like they did in 2012 for some characters.

Vega 2012 changes was cow dung, cosmic heel to ultra 1 can combo...riiiiiiiiiiiight....

I want invincible ex Scarlett terror and combo in ultra after an anti air scarlet terror!

gamogo's ideas are awesome, but some of the features might seem like they need an overhaul for the entire game to make them work...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 10, 2012, 10:09:52 AM
Fantastic points gamogo. the only thing i disagree with is, characters all receiving a new move. My concern is that it could quiet easily throw off the games overall balance.

Rufus is a really good character if he were to receive a buff he would be too damn good. Atm i would rate rufus either high A or A+. I just hope they don't buff characters that are already strong enough as meeks pointed out it can make them bullshit. But i think it's fair to say that seth cammy and viper could really do with some small nerfs. Seth should be hit the most.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 10, 2012, 10:17:43 AM
I agree with everything Gamogo said. Good points as per usual.

However, give me a Yoga Uppercut, thanks.

Also, take Guile out of the game. No one wants to watch some clown spam sonic booms all day, and it's not like there's any other way to play Guile.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 10, 2012, 10:38:12 AM
LOL
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on August 10, 2012, 10:50:14 AM
I understand the balancing process is not an easy one, that's why it's important that Capcom take a lot of feedback in its stride and really take their time when bringing out a balance patch if they do intend on doing so in the first place. Tweaking one move, can really make or break a character. If I can speak for Chun, I feel as though she is one decision away from either being an overpowered character to a well balanced character. Maybe it's the same with every other character, so Capcom needs to be really careful about where they want a character's direction to take.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: HERECOMESBOTMAN on August 10, 2012, 10:50:54 AM
it'd be cool to play around with a new version but they're done a pretty good job on 2012 and you could put even money on campcom screwing it up, so i say leave it alone

except maybe give ken a command throw and 1400hp

...and he should be able to dress up like arnie in terminator 2
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: KellyNUTS on August 10, 2012, 11:11:53 AM
Im also with Gamogo, but you know because its common sense, and probably easy as piss to implement Capcom will instantly bypass it all :(

I still cant work out for the life of me why companies took away the old way of button config and replaced it with the newer, harder way?!?!?

IM also pretty happy with 2012 though, id be all for 2013 as long as Cappy didnt screw it up.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 10, 2012, 11:34:50 AM
And make Balrog S tier. If SF were a real thing with real people and one of them was Mike Tyson, he'd win every fight and probably kill most of his opponents.
 
The game should reflect that by making the Mike Tyson parody the best character.

PS I don't think Capcom gets too much wrong in the gameplay of their games since vanilla SF4. They miss some peripheral things but with the exception of SFxT the bread and butter of all of their games has been pretty good.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 10, 2012, 12:13:33 PM
Dudley needs invulnerability on his DP's. Tiger Uppercut level please. Would love easymode trade, duck straight/upper, U2. I mean cmon, his uppercut is so cool, why so shit. Needs pre-nerf damage. All uppercuts 1 hit, all do 140/160/180/200 in 5/4/4/4 frames. God the man needs a decent uppercut. Thanks for giving him a 3 frame hp uppercut.. helps with FADC combos (derp). And I wouldn't be mashing it in strings either. No matter how fast, an uppercut with no invuln? Eeek.

He is so rich, I'm sure Dudley can write Capcom a cheque to buff him (He alrdy did for a dirty amount of money in SFxT). He must be insulted on his incomplete black man persona and his average alt-costumes and no armor break on shortswing blow. He's crippled I tells ye!

I'd love me some rematch option.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 10, 2012, 12:54:30 PM
lol dudley to have a sagat dp .
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: vindk8 on August 10, 2012, 01:15:04 PM
Look at the top 16 EVO 2012 results and the characters used:

1. WW|Infiltration (Akuma)
2. AVM|GamerBee (Adon)
3. CVPR|PR Balrog (Balrog)
4. eLive|Xiaohai (Cammy)
5. MCZ|Daigo (Ryu)
5. HumanBomb (Sakura)
7. BT|Dieminion (Guile)
7. TH|Poongko (Seth)

9. Kindevu (Cammy)
9. Haitani (Makoto)
9. RZR|Fuudo (Fei Long)
9. Dogura (M. Bison)
13. DMG|iPeru (El Fuerte)
13. Kyabetsu (C. Viper)
13. coL.cc|Mike Ross (E. Honda)
13. EG|Justin Wong (Rufus)

Please explain why a rebalance is needed.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 10, 2012, 01:28:59 PM
Yeah anymore rebalancing is flying too close to the sun.

If there is a new version, it'll have to come with new characters or something in order to not be pointless, and also profitable.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 10, 2012, 01:48:01 PM
You can't just take one evo result as the end all and be all.


And because theres no sagat in there vince :(
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on August 10, 2012, 01:51:24 PM
i want to see an improvement to the replay channel. the interface for that is abysmal. i have a friend from brazil, who really wants to improve, so he decided to show me some of his replays that he had in his battle log.  when i entered his replay lobby, turns out it was streaming the replays from him to me, rather than from a dedicated server. as a result, the replay was unwatchable and completely useless. stupid interface that needs to be fixed.

other than that, i wanna see chun li get buffed slightly :<
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Skepticism on August 10, 2012, 01:56:35 PM
Agree with everyone else wrt new features. I'm sure all that stuff comes down to budget more than anything else but IMO they could easily code up extra modules and release them as DLC to fund it.

Otherwise I'd rather they spend all of their money on SF5 and hiring actual programmers to replace the SFXT netcode monkeys

The killer feature for me would be in-game text chat. Seriously. GFWL is SHIT, the messaging system sucks (can't even read sent msgs wtf), I want to stab Steve Ballmer in the stomach

As for character buffs, I heard that in AE2013 Cody gets a command grab, and Juri shoots laser beams out of her nipples.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on August 10, 2012, 01:58:37 PM
Look at the top 16 EVO 2012 results and the characters used:

1. WW|Infiltration (Akuma)
2. AVM|GamerBee (Adon)
3. CVPR|PR Balrog (Balrog)
4. eLive|Xiaohai (Cammy)
5. MCZ|Daigo (Ryu)
5. HumanBomb (Sakura)
7. BT|Dieminion (Guile)
7. TH|Poongko (Seth)

9. Kindevu (Cammy)
9. Haitani (Makoto)
9. RZR|Fuudo (Fei Long)
9. Dogura (M. Bison)
13. DMG|iPeru (El Fuerte)
13. Kyabetsu (C. Viper)
13. coL.cc|Mike Ross (E. Honda)
13. EG|Justin Wong (Rufus)

Please explain why a rebalance is needed.
The problem is there are only 15 characters instead of the entire roster from AE in the top 16.  :P
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Burnout on August 10, 2012, 02:01:29 PM
Need Guard Break meter, Hop, Super Jump, Run (not Dash), Cancel Super into Ultra and 3 vs 3 format.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 10, 2012, 02:21:55 PM
Look at the top 16 EVO 2012 results and the characters used:

1. WW|Infiltration (Akuma)
2. AVM|GamerBee (Adon)
3. CVPR|PR Balrog (Balrog)
4. eLive|Xiaohai (Cammy)
5. MCZ|Daigo (Ryu)
5. HumanBomb (Sakura)
7. BT|Dieminion (Guile)
7. TH|Poongko (Seth)

9. Kindevu (Cammy)
9. Haitani (Makoto)
9. RZR|Fuudo (Fei Long)
9. Dogura (M. Bison)
13. DMG|iPeru (El Fuerte)
13. Kyabetsu (C. Viper)
13. coL.cc|Mike Ross (E. Honda)
13. EG|Justin Wong (Rufus)

Please explain why a rebalance is needed.
Because Dan never had a chance to shine. Nor did his black brother, Dudley. I want T.Hawk to do well too.

That list pretty much shows the top players.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: thirdeye (Ikuya) on August 10, 2012, 02:27:30 PM
Need Guard Break meter, Hop, Super Jump, Run (not Dash), Cancel Super into Ultra and 3 vs 3 format.

wait for CVS3  ;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: AtomicX on August 10, 2012, 02:48:03 PM
More stages, custom colour costumes, change the ranked PP/BP system so it's more fun to play.

I think it's unbalanced when you lose a ton of points if you lose one game to a low point player then have to get 10 more wins just to get them back etc. Maybe the PP/BP system works in a country where there's tons of players but in Australia with hardly anyone playing ranked it's just not fun.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 10, 2012, 03:05:40 PM
Definitely agree with more stages and custom colours like they have in SFxT.

Only problem with the rating system IMO is there's no provisional period. You could play Daigo and if he has 0PP and you have 5000PP, you're gonna lose the max points. Because it's his first game, you should only lose 1 point, 2 points if it's his second, etc. But you definitely should lose tons of points against players with much less than you and gain almost nothing when you beat them. That's how you keep ratings meaningful and prevent inflation.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bored on August 10, 2012, 03:24:12 PM
please god no custom colour shit a la sfxt

ugly as fuck

give me some new stages perhaps, but if they're like the neonvomit stages of sfxt, im happy as is

no need to rebalance the game imo, but if changes were to happen, just some basic shit like gamogo said (rematch option, allow challengers in training mode etc) would be good

i would be happy if rufus was nerfed to oblivion though
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Glassy123 on August 10, 2012, 03:29:34 PM
games balanced fine as it is atm

like others have said there needs to be a fresh lick of paint, backgrounds, sounds, something to make it more interesting

hell, add training room option when waiting in line in a lobby, ie press x if you dont want to spectate, train, then play your match when its your turn, that would work great
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Mooseking on August 10, 2012, 03:41:50 PM
Only characters that need support are the lower C's and D's of the game.

The engine itself is close to being done, Everyone is slowly reaching the level where just about anyone with the time and practice put in to their character can do well if not win a major tournament.

Balance alterations will keep the game alive, but I'd like see a few more options for some characters and the ability to make the useless normals useful for certain situations (function for crouch tech OS etc) if you can do that and give each characters more options(not new moves just the options if fine enough) then the game can be a little more open ended, as it is characters with high ability for mixups will reach the pinnacle in the tiers because that's all that's really left, mixing the options up.

I like Seth, Viper, Cammy etc because they have the ability to properly punish someone when they read their actions. Mixups are all I'm interested in at this point. Add more to the game and it might be fun for me once again.

But if not then I'll just stick to playing 3s KoFXIII and VF plenty of fun to be had.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on August 10, 2012, 03:58:10 PM
buff codys f.hk please, im sick of getting beat by people mashing jab :(
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: fkuspencer on August 10, 2012, 04:18:54 PM
Hmm, I wonder if this is the Apology Edition for that mess SFxT and bring over Elena, Rolento, Hugo and Poison to Apology Edition.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zgnoud on August 10, 2012, 04:30:37 PM
Dudley needs 7 frame overhead, let's face it, Duds only has high low, make it count. Less knockback on st.hk CH.

Rufus needs 1000 stun, he is fat.

Cammy needs damage nerf. Blockstun/Hitstun nerf on divekicks.

Thats calling the kettle black? Lol... if they do that, look for a dive kick height restriction nerf on Rufus too. DO NOT WANT.
Leave her be. His low stun rating is iffy but not that game changing for me.

The only thing that should be fixed/changed for rufus is his ex messiah. They need to fix it so that it doesn't go over certain characters on hit/block at close range. Stupid glitch :/
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: thirdeye (Ikuya) on August 10, 2012, 07:40:41 PM
I hope any unblock set ups are fixed. I mean not change frame, need to change from system.
because changing frame is not fix, people will find another unblockable set up lol.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on August 10, 2012, 09:59:28 PM
Dudley needs 7 frame overhead, let's face it, Duds only has high low, make it count. Less knockback on st.hk CH.

Rufus needs 1000 stun, he is fat.

Cammy needs damage nerf. Blockstun/Hitstun nerf on divekicks.

Thats calling the kettle black? Lol... if they do that, look for a dive kick height restriction nerf on Rufus too. DO NOT WANT.
Leave her be. His low stun rating is iffy but not that game changing for me.

The only thing that should be fixed/changed for rufus is his ex messiah. They need to fix it so that it doesn't go over certain characters on hit/block at close range. Stupid glitch :/
That requires hit boxes on Mesiah kick to change, I think all they'd need to do is make hit box down lower. Not really a glitch, it's just like Abel step kick > HP not hitting a lot of characters if they're crouching. Strange and a bit silly that Abels S.HP forces stand yet whiffs on a lot of the cast if they're crouching anyway...
please god no custom colour shit a la sfxt

ugly as fuck

give me some new stages perhaps, but if they're like the neonvomit stages of sfxt, im happy as is

no need to rebalance the game imo, but if changes were to happen, just some basic shit like gamogo said (rematch option, allow challengers in training mode etc) would be good

i would be happy if rufus was nerfed to oblivion though
Nothing too busy for stages. Keep em simple like most of the SFIV stages.
Same with costumes. Nothing stupid like Blankas alt.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 10, 2012, 10:02:55 PM
I hope any unblock set ups are fixed. I mean not change frame, need to change from system.
because changing frame is not fix, people will find another unblockable set up lol.

I think if anything it needs more unblockables. This game's too turtley as it is.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: CrownB on August 11, 2012, 05:55:19 PM
Tweaking one move, can really make or break a character. If I can speak for Chun, I feel as though she is one decision away from either being an overpowered character to a well balanced character. Maybe it's the same with every other character, so Capcom needs to be really careful about where they want a character's direction to take.

I can't think of a better example than her, to be honest. I feel like you could only give her something with the compromise of taking away something else, like making Hazan Shu faster but way more punishable on block.

buff codys f.hk please, im sick of getting beat by people mashing jab :(

It's +1 on block so I can only assume you're talking about crouching opponents, in which case it sounds like you use it too often. If your opponent knows you like to Crack Kick to get in they can wait until active frames end to punish or preempt it with a focus and get an even bigger punish. Commit yourself to finding other ways to get in and you'll be a better player for it, trust me.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: 17yearoldwarrior. on August 11, 2012, 06:16:01 PM
ryu needs a sweep cancel into fireball or tatsu.
that is all.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: aadm on August 11, 2012, 06:30:57 PM
If they decide to change anything, I'd just prefer they don't try and mess with anything balance wise again... Just the framework.


Rematch option after ranked matches.
Realtime ping display instead of stupid random bars.
Ability to see current NAT status...
Online training mode.
Ranked requests from training mode.
Turn ranked request back on after you un-pause in arcade mode - good bug.
More training mode options - longer record time, record slots, swap characters from p1/p2, hitboxes, choose stage since they differ in length, health regen on/off, etc etc
Button config on the char select - keep the timer ticking down though - don't want people wasting more time on there pretending they're afk.
Spectate/skip turn/IM EATING option in endless lobby
Save replays when you get disconnected/they disconnect.
Dedicated server options. Dedicated servers that could split up into separate lobbies would be nice. Even if the endless lobby host could choose an option to be an actual dedicated host you could setup your own semi-dedicated servers.





Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: ATB|CoolzHAMYOLO on August 11, 2012, 07:09:08 PM
As everyone's kind of said already, making changes to an already remotely balanced game could throw things off a bit.

As someone who's picked up Juri recently, I'd kill for EX Pinwheel to have 'legit' invincibility instead of being beaten out by some meaties, but on the other hand that could also be borderline broken.

Then there's the whole 1-frame BnB on crouchers thing she has going on... But again to change that by buffing her jab hitbox to hit crouchers, or buffing framedata on her already-good normals could turn her into braindead SFxT stylez mash jab-Juri...

Actually if she had the SFxT, c.HP j.HP bounce anti-air combo I wouldn't object to that since it'd be hilarious/awesome.  ;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kinki on August 11, 2012, 11:30:55 PM
As everyone's kind of said already, making changes to an already remotely balanced game could throw things off a bit.

As someone who's picked up Juri recently, I'd kill for EX Pinwheel to have 'legit' invincibility instead of being beaten out by some meaties, but on the other hand that could also be borderline broken.

Then there's the whole 1-frame BnB on crouchers thing she has going on... But again to change that by buffing her jab hitbox to hit crouchers, or buffing framedata on her already-good normals could turn her into braindead SFxT stylez mash jab-Juri...

Actually if she had the SFxT, c.HP j.HP bounce anti-air combo I wouldn't object to that since it'd be hilarious/awesome.  ;)

it gets beaten by any meaty. stand short, low strong isn't part of her bnb - hardly useful anyway. stand jab hits a lot of crouchers, and for the ones it doesn't, you can force it with fuzzy application. the buffs that would keep her from being broken, yet make her more competitive are things like: forcing both hits of short pinwheel to hit crouchers and make it -2/-1 on block (it's -4 on stand block, up to -8 on crouch due to the second hit whiffing). possibly extending the hitbox length on her leg raise making low forward - store a legitimate footsie/whiff punish tool,  faster walk speed and that's about it.

more stages and costumes would be nice too.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Cowie on August 12, 2012, 12:52:25 AM
Most of all, Evil Ryu needs a music buff.
His music needs to change to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJnI31NQnQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJnI31NQnQ)

Maybe while they are doing that, just give E.Ryu some (all) of G.Rugal's moves to balance the game a bit.  ::)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on August 12, 2012, 01:14:04 AM
If they decide to change anything, I'd just prefer they don't try and mess with anything balance wise again... Just the framework.


Rematch option after ranked matches.
Realtime ping display instead of stupid random bars.
Ability to see current NAT status...
Online training mode.
Ranked requests from training mode.
Turn ranked request back on after you un-pause in arcade mode - good bug.
More training mode options - longer record time, record slots, swap characters from p1/p2, hitboxes, choose stage since they differ in length, health regen on/off, etc etc
Button config on the char select - keep the timer ticking down though - don't want people wasting more time on there pretending they're afk.
Spectate/skip turn/IM EATING option in endless lobby
Save replays when you get disconnected/they disconnect.
Dedicated server options. Dedicated servers that could split up into separate lobbies would be nice. Even if the endless lobby host could choose an option to be an actual dedicated host you could setup your own semi-dedicated servers.
I'm pretty sure all stages are the same length. It was thought that Overpass for example was a different size but it wasn't true.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 12, 2012, 11:22:46 AM
That music doesn't match Evil Ryu. One is the Lord God, the other is gutter trash.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: aadm on August 12, 2012, 02:22:19 PM
I'm pretty sure all stages are the same length. It was thought that Overpass for example was a different size but it wasn't true.

Ah ok, you're right.

Scratch that then, just remove crumbling lab and the diner stage then.  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 12, 2012, 02:31:55 PM
Diner stage? Where will Rufus eat and beat up Ken??

Crumbling laboratory must go. That stage and Seth should do it.

I love all the clean/bright stages: Small airfield, distillery, overpass, chinatown (mmm soya chicken), safari and beautiful bay.

What I would really like though... is that rooftop stage and honda's bathhouse. Those were cool.

Why is a picture of Cody in the bottom left of my posts...? :3
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Dirkinator_ on August 14, 2012, 10:24:59 AM
Capcom Unity spoke briefly about this recently also. They encouraged people to make some noise so the higher ups could see how keen people are to have the game revisited.

Thing is, I don't think it should be - at least with respect to balance. 2012 is a very balanced game as it stands currently and if character balance was to be looked at I'd argue perhaps only Seth and Viper should be look at with any serious degree of scrutiny. There's only so much spit and polish you can apply before you start damaging the paintwork in my opinion and Capcom could do damage to the game if they got too gung-ho.

However, I do think it could be revisited from a function stand point:

- Permit lobby rematches for 2 player games
- Allow training mode sessions to accept ranked or endless challengers rather than just arcade mode
- Allow friends to participate in training mode sessions online
- Provide an offline lag simulator ala Marvel
- Hitbox displays in training mode option
- Extended record buffer options in training mode (i.e. 10 sec, 30 sec, 60 sec)
- Audible tone for counterhits + enlarged 'counterhit' text notification
- True music/effects mute option
- Bring back thumbs up/thumbs down guy from the lobbies!
- Re-instate Championship mode? I quite liked that from Vanilla.
- Button config on player select screen + implement HDR style button config
- Offline ladder/tournament generation. For example, SSF2 had this on consoles back in the 90s. Why not today?
- Offline match record. Why is this an online only feature?
- Extended start button input registers to prevent accidental pauses during matches

I'd really like to see ALL characters receive at least one NEW move if they seriously revisit the game though. Something to freshen it up.
It was really fun finding the new stuff in ST back in the day when it came out because SF2 had been somewhat static with respect to moves for years. ST dropped and suddenly we had new moves scattered all over the place - the addition of command normals, juggles and overheads for example was huge. A new move for each character in IV specifically targeted at addressing a potential problem in a character's worst matchup would be very cool. At the very least it would breathe a bit of life into things. Imagine ken received his knee-bash? Fuerte had a ground based command throw? Bison an overhead normal?

I'd also like to see Capcom experiment with some elements that don't impact the gameplay. One being character settings preferences. By this I mean you get to choose the preferred settings for your opponent's character, irrespective of their chosen colour or costume. So say for example you could force (much like say, character voice languages) predefined character colours and costumes to avoid Blanka's garish (and hitbox obscuring alts) or those irritating stencil colours (colour 12?). Your opponent would see their chosen costume, just on your end it would be set to your preference.

Secondly I'd really like to see Capcom revisit that USB dongle idea they had for SFxT's gem management albeit for SFIV. On the USB dongles they could not only store BP and PP, but also button configs, preferred character colours, names, costumes, win/lose stats, total games, etc - basically just like the gamecards used in Japan. I feel this could work quite well - you could also take it to locals/tournies and not only record your results, but also take with you your button config ready to roll. Its entirely possible it could retain recorded match buffers as the file sizes for the playback data is actually very tiny.

Of course, Capcom are very close-minded when it comes to this kind of thing and have revealed themselves to be pretty third rate developers in this arena so I doubt none of this will ever see the light of day.

I'd drop $10 if these features were released as DLC though. Perhaps that's the incentive they need.

Too much text, I blame coffee. Sorry Spencer.


All of these would be excellent changes, especially the ranked match request while training. 
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Dirkinator_ on August 14, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
Actually, I wonder how much it would shake things up if they reintroduced air guard?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gigadeath22 on August 14, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
... as it is characters with high ability for mixups will reach the pinnacle in the tiers because that's all that's really left, mixing the options up.

Agree with this 100%, particularly with regard to Cammy; I have seen so many players with piss-poor fundamentals switch to Cammy and suddenly start (and continue to) get away with murder. Her matchups are just too easy. No offence intended to the many talented Cammy players out there (you know who you are).

The wishlists of functional enhancements put forward by Gamogo and aadm are very nice. In all honesty however, I would be very surprised to see Capcom invest in anything beyond a character re-balance at this point - the player-base that existed back in the days of Super simply isn't there anymore. Yes, tournament numbers are steadily rising, however I would argue that is more a symptom of existing players becoming more aware of the social scene. That being said, I am all for Capcom adding new console features if they are so inclined; I'm not holding my breath however.

Some other minor points:


Whatever the case (and if 2013 is indeed happening), I'm sure Capcom can bring a welcome re-balance to an already fantastic game.

tl;dr - Cammy and Seth need tweaking, Viper has too many wakeup options and Elf makes me cry. Capcom unlikely to invest any further beyond character re-balances.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 14, 2012, 06:09:23 PM
I've switched to Rufus and I get away with murder now.

Anti-air/air to air = 3/4 of people can't get in on their terms. Free damage, advantage after knocking them out of the sky.

Footsies = 3/4 of people can't press buttons or lift off to do neutral jump and dumb shit.

Easy mode ultra. Big damage. Dive kick. Great range on footies, they are a bit slow but it's ok.

I made the right choice.

Cammy has a lot of these but her normals cancel into a long range knockdown. Her frame advantage is broken. Her anti-fireball god mode ultra can be comboed into. Fair backdash, great reversal. I think scrubs can pwn with her because any followup oki attempt is dped by her, her reversal blows up crossups easymode. She can take advantage of basic oki and get easy 50/50s. But honestly her ex-dive is messed up.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Issen on August 14, 2012, 09:15:36 PM
If there are going to be any character changes whatsoever, then for the love of all that is good and pure in this world, make Guy's Ultra 2 a 0-1 frame grab.
Poor Guy hasn't got much else, at least give him that.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 14, 2012, 09:18:42 PM
If there are going to be any character changes whatsoever, then for the love of all that is good and pure in this world, make Guy's Ultra 2 a 0-1 frame grab.
Poor Guy hasn't got much else, at least give him that.

Seriously, fuck that.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Issen on August 14, 2012, 09:38:20 PM
Seriously, fuck that.
It's just that if I've got a legit U2 setup, I don't want to have it be completely worthless by making it so that the opponent can just hold up when they see the Ultra flash and get a free punish. It's just plain silly.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 14, 2012, 09:42:42 PM
Seriously, fuck that.
It's just that if I've got a legit U2 setup, I don't want to have it be completely worthless by making it so that the opponent can just hold up when they see the Ultra flash and get a free punish. It's just plain silly.

If the opp can escape by holding up it's not a legit U2 setup.

Giving a character like Guy a 0 frame ultra would be just plain silly.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GirlsDigMyScore on August 15, 2012, 01:10:42 AM
Make Blanka wave a flag that says I like weenies every time he uses his hop.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on August 15, 2012, 09:30:51 AM
It's just that if I've got a legit U2 setup, I don't want to have it be completely worthless by making it so that the opponent can just hold up when they see the Ultra flash and get a free punish. It's just plain silly.

I had a Guy player perform a particularly dirty parlour trick setup on me at Galaxy World the other day. He stood a small distance away from me on wakeup (after a hard knockdown) at just the right distance where a wake-up reversal (i.e. armour breaker) wasn't possible. He then performed an EX run and absorbed a stray poke from me and smashed out U2 to catch my normal recovery. It was pretty tasty and I hadn't seen it before.

Admittedly it was a bit gimmicky, but was enough to instil the fear in me for subsequent games.

A 0 frame grab U2 for Guy might be a little cheeky given the current input for it. If it was 720, sure. But for HCBx2? That's pushing it. FADC into full U1 animation (anywhere) would be nicer. It would give it some utility outside of very specific scenarios combined with the amount of hits keeping the damage scaling in check.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 15, 2012, 04:25:02 PM
LOL guy having a 0-1 frame ultra good joke might as well give ryu and sagat 1f command grabs .
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: eveAZN on August 15, 2012, 05:55:26 PM
Give bipson an overhead that looks similarly like the chop on cvs2!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: John Hopoate on August 16, 2012, 04:15:58 PM
I've switched to Rufus and I get away with murder now.

Anti-air/air to air = 3/4 of people can't get in on their terms. Free damage, advantage after knocking them out of the sky.

Footsies = 3/4 of people can't press buttons or lift off to do neutral jump and dumb shit.

Easy mode ultra. Big damage. Dive kick. Great range on footies, they are a bit slow but it's ok.

I made the right choice.

Cammy has a lot of these but her normals cancel into a long range knockdown. Her frame advantage is broken. Her anti-fireball god mode ultra can be comboed into. Fair backdash, great reversal. I think scrubs can pwn with her because any followup oki attempt is dped by her, her reversal blows up crossups easymode. She can take advantage of basic oki and get easy 50/50s. But honestly her ex-dive is messed up.

Cammy gets away with murder, just ask a number of players here lol
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Ero_Oyaji on August 16, 2012, 04:16:50 PM
character divekick gets away with murder.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on August 16, 2012, 04:28:03 PM
- Dizzy meter
- Guard crush
- ST style throw tech
- Air throw tech
- Tech roll that uses one stock
- Utilise the wall-bounce mechanic more (seriously, I was excited when this was shown in early builds of Super - they didn't really do much with it did they? Who uses it legitimately? Juri? Gouken in a limited capacity?)
- ?
- ???
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitaau on August 16, 2012, 08:27:27 PM
The twins make some use of wall bounces. I'm not sure who else.

I like the way there's just a bit of it, abundant wall bounces would homogenise the appearance of the gameplay too much.

One of this game's strengths is the variety of the characters and how they play. I would like to see more experimental characters like Juri and Hakan.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on August 16, 2012, 10:42:02 PM
Would have been nice to see Gouken and Adon be able to make use of the wall bounce though. Dizzy meter might be nice though.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on August 19, 2012, 03:11:37 PM
... as it is characters with high ability for mixups will reach the pinnacle in the tiers because that's all that's really left, mixing the options up.

Agree with this 100%, particularly with regard to Cammy; I have seen so many players with piss-poor fundamentals switch to Cammy and suddenly start (and continue to) get away with murder. Her matchups are just too easy. No offence intended to the many talented Cammy players out there (you know who you are).

The wishlists of functional enhancements put forward by Gamogo and aadm are very nice. In all honesty however, I would be very surprised to see Capcom invest in anything beyond a character re-balance at this point - the player-base that existed back in the days of Super simply isn't there anymore. Yes, tournament numbers are steadily rising, however I would argue that is more a symptom of existing players becoming more aware of the social scene. That being said, I am all for Capcom adding new console features if they are so inclined. I'm not holding my breath however.

Some other minor points:

  • Seth is a monster and needs to be scaled back from S to A+ (much like Cammy).
  • Viper has too many wakeup options.
  • El Fuerte. With apologies to all Elf players (and bring on the flames), fighting this character feels so fundamentally against everything SF4 stands for that I'd argue the character doesn't belong in the game. While I accept a large part of it comes down to matchup knowledge, good Elf players are able to completely degenerate the game down to an exercise in futility with 50/50's.

Whatever the case (and if 2013 is indeed happening), I'm sure Capcom can bring a welcome re-balance to an already fantastic game.

tl;dr - Cammy and Seth need tweaking, Viper has too many wakeup options and Elf makes me cry. Capcom unlikely to invest any further beyond character re-balances.

It's not fair to say that to elf when gief is worser.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: derrace on August 29, 2012, 08:58:22 PM
2 things I want for tubby, fix the damn messiah kick whiffing on some crouching opponents, and a 3 frame normal.

Wouldn't mind his SFxT sweep too  ;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Marble on August 30, 2012, 02:23:23 PM
I'd like Ken's medium DP to be fixed so it doesn't get beaten out by Gouki and Gouken's dive kicks, and for Ken to be able to kara with a low move. That way, you could do kara DPs with the proper shoryu input instead of needing to end with the stick at forward. Of course, none of his lows would move him forward as much as towards + MK, but it would be cool if it could somehow work.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on August 30, 2012, 02:33:01 PM
I'd like Ken's medium DP to be fixed so it doesn't get beaten out by Gouki and Gouken's dive kicks, and for Ken to be able to kara with a low move. That way, you could do kara DPs with the proper shoryu input instead of needing to end with the stick at forward. Of course, none of his lows would move him forward as much as towards + MK, but it would be cool if it could somehow work.
then we would be getting kara-sweeps and kara-fierce punch anti airs... no thanks
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Red_Gambit on August 30, 2012, 02:46:31 PM
I'd like Ken's medium DP to be fixed so it doesn't get beaten out by Gouki and Gouken's dive kicks, and for Ken to be able to kara with a low move. That way, you could do kara DPs with the proper shoryu input instead of needing to end with the stick at forward. Of course, none of his lows would move him forward as much as towards + MK, but it would be cool if it could somehow work.
then we would be getting kara-sweeps and kara-fierce punch anti airs... no thanks

Hey man, cut him some slack. We haven't got EVERY shoto into top tier yet.

*Ahem*, anyways….

Just make Juri exactly the same as she is in SF x Tekken. That’s all I could ever ask for.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Marble on August 30, 2012, 02:57:06 PM
I don't see how that change would really make Ken stronger, I would just prefer it from an execution perspective since I don't like using the f, d, f shortcut.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Red_Gambit on August 30, 2012, 03:09:18 PM
...why not just tap f then do a  :qcf:?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: VITRIOL on August 30, 2012, 04:00:24 PM
There's only 2 changes that I want for Makoto, for her s.hp and lp/mp oroshi to not lose a frame advantage when the opponent is crouching and for her back throw become her fwd throw and vice-versa.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Jpage on August 30, 2012, 08:29:15 PM
Yang old damage values
or
Some cross up back (maybe not the old one, that was imba, but something better than the current one)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Marble on August 31, 2012, 11:11:40 AM
...why not just tap f then do a  :qcf:?
I don't think f + MK, d, df + P works. The timing of buttons from MK to P is basically a plink, you'd need superhuman execution to go from f to d, df that quickly.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: JimmyRiddle on August 31, 2012, 12:28:11 PM
would be nice if goukens cr.mp would combo with fireball / be a blockstring close up. and for tatsu to hit all characters while they crouching.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on August 31, 2012, 01:22:03 PM
...why not just tap f then do a  :qcf:?
I don't think f + MK, d, df + P works. The timing of buttons from MK to P is basically a plink, you'd need superhuman execution to go from f to d, df that quickly.
No, he means Kara-hadouken with a forward input first so it turns into a Shoryuken motion. So inputs show as F, D, DF, F + MK, MK+P
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Lets1vs1noob on August 31, 2012, 01:45:20 PM
Give Gen a raging demon that connects after super.

That is all.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Red_Gambit on August 31, 2012, 01:49:57 PM
Give Gen a raging demon that connects after super.

That is all.

(http://i.qkme.me/3ocf11.jpg)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Marble on August 31, 2012, 01:50:10 PM
I just assumed he meant what I explained because I said I wanted to be able to kara shoryu only using f, d, df. For the record that's how I usually do it, or sometimes double qcf if I don't have super. But neither of them feel right.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sexyfella on August 31, 2012, 04:44:54 PM
they should enable every character to be able to use both their ultras in a match this would balance the game more in my opinion also evil ryu needs increase in health or give him knock down ex hadouken or be able to link high punch into his fireball and be able to link crouching low punch into his crouching medium kick for fucks sake he is the only shoto chara that cant do that lol
Also guy needs his ultra 2 to be zero frame grab this ultra is bloody useless if you can just jump out of it or be able to combo ultra 1 from anywhere on screen. Viper, ibuki and definitely seth need to be nerfed. deejay should be able to fully connect his ultra 1 after a machine gun upper, guile's crouching medium punch should be 2 frame link its too hard to combo into it in the current build and may be able to combo into ultra 2 after low flash kick without fadc. Every other character in my opinion is pretty decent that can use a variety of changes but i dont play them much so i cant comment on them but of course others might have better ideas for the rest of the cast. my two cent sorry the long post but its something ive been wanting to say for a long time. ill be busy playing tekken tag 2 next week
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Lets1vs1noob on August 31, 2012, 06:38:00 PM
they should enable every character to be able to use both their ultras in a match this would balance the game more in my opinion also evil ryu needs increase in health or give him knock down ex hadouken or be able to link high punch into his fireball and be able to link crouching low punch into his crouching medium kick for fucks sake he is the only shoto chara that cant do that lol
Also guy needs his ultra 2 to be zero frame grab this ultra is bloody useless if you can just jump out of it or be able to combo ultra 1 from anywhere on screen. Viper, ibuki and definitely seth need to be nerfed. deejay should be able to fully connect his ultra 1 after a machine gun upper, guile's crouching medium punch should be 2 frame link its too hard to combo into it in the current build and may be able to combo into ultra 2 after low flash kick without fadc. Every other character in my opinion is pretty decent that can use a variety of changes but i dont play them much so i cant comment on them but of course others might have better ideas for the rest of the cast. my two cent sorry the long post but its something ive been wanting to say for a long time. ill be busy playing tekken tag 2 next week

I already have to play with 2 ultras I don't want to have to play with four.

Only thing I'd actually want is for capcom to fucking finally fix Gen's stance change glitch.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on September 01, 2012, 12:47:22 PM
they should enable every character to be able to use both their ultras in a match this would balance the game more in my opinion also evil ryu needs increase in health or give him knock down ex hadouken or be able to link high punch into his fireball and be able to link crouching low punch into his crouching medium kick for fucks sake he is the only shoto chara that cant do that lol
Also guy needs his ultra 2 to be zero frame grab this ultra is bloody useless if you can just jump out of it or be able to combo ultra 1 from anywhere on screen. Viper, ibuki and definitely seth need to be nerfed. deejay should be able to fully connect his ultra 1 after a machine gun upper, guile's crouching medium punch should be 2 frame link its too hard to combo into it in the current build and may be able to combo into ultra 2 after low flash kick without fadc. Every other character in my opinion is pretty decent that can use a variety of changes but i dont play them much so i cant comment on them but of course others might have better ideas for the rest of the cast. my two cent sorry the long post but its something ive been wanting to say for a long time. ill be busy playing tekken tag 2 next week

I already have to play with 2 ultras I don't want to have to play with four.

Only thing I'd actually want is for capcom to fucking finally fix Gen's stance change glitch.
nobody in the world knows what your talking about because nobody plays gen
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Sxio on September 01, 2012, 01:33:49 PM
This would be great!

I want a couple of things.

1. You should be able  to be challenged when in ANY mode of the game, not just arcade mode. Training mode, for example.
2. Challenges should have a choice of endless or ranked, not everyone wants to play ranked.
3. There should be a re-challenge feature at the end of every fight instead of getting booted back to menu or game.
4. New BACKGROUNDS!!!! (Ver. Fucking important)
5. Don't worry about new characters. There's enough already. Maybe tone back some of the randomness. Fighting viper and fuerte is just a chore.
6. Give Ken another option to his game. I don't want him to be the best, just to be as good as Ryu would be nice.
7. Better code in big endless games. There's way too much sitting around watching others play. If there's 4 or more, should be consecutive matches going on.
8. The ability to start on 2P side so we don't all keep getting awesome at doing specials in one direction only.
9. less contrast and different options for menus etc so those of us with Plama's don't keep getting burn through on our screens because we made the mistake of loving only one game.

That's all. I love this game. I really think they should put more effort into things like match up play etc.

It'll be a big opportunity wasted if it's just more costumes, moves and characters. They should concentrate on making it easier and quicker to get to fighting people. That's all we really want to do. Fight other people. That's the key. Make that better and everything will be enhanced.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: HNK on September 15, 2012, 10:30:43 PM
ssf4ae2013 - balrog should get vanilla standing jab and headbutt recovery back :D lol
seth should t nerfed and maybe give  guile the extra metr build on sonic booms again eheh
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: hongvantran on September 17, 2012, 12:10:34 AM
what i would like to see in version 2013 is all that weird unexplained (to my knowledge) little things that is in the game at the moment... like:

1. why does ryus metsu hadouken only hits 3 times after a dp > shinku hadouken > metsu hadouken. why?
2. why does sagats tiger cannon only hits 3? 4? times after a dp > fadc > tiger cannon?
3. why does deejays hp.dp (kick) only hit confirms on his 1st and 3rd kick after you connect it off of mk.dp?
4. why does no characters do their death noise when oni kills them with an ultra?
5. why does seth sometimes blast his opponents away during his super? and sometimes doesnt?
6. why is it that cammys and fei longs counter ultra eats poo, when dudleys normal counter eats guiles ultra flash kick? (saw it on a video before)
7. why does kens ult 2 pushes the opponent and not hit them like a block string? (looks so stupid) if not flys over them like a normal hurricane kick
8. (not a complaint cause i like bison) why does bisons full ult 1 comes out when you hit opponent off a juggle? sakura haru ultra? but not fei longs ult 1 for example.
9. whys is guiles sonic hurricane so bloody weak after a flash kick > fadc? when its so much harder to do then ryus? oh... and in regards to ryus and sagats fireballs. the sonic hurricane only hits once after double flash kick super.... why?

besides that...

i like yang to have his cross up jump mk again.
+ karen added :D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on September 17, 2012, 12:30:36 AM
8. (not a complaint cause i like bison) why does bisons full ult 1 comes out when you hit opponent off a juggle? sakura haru ultra? but not fei longs ult 1 for example.

... and Chun's U1 after ex legs should hit full too. None of this juggle-in-the-corner bullshit  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: KellyNUTS on September 17, 2012, 09:04:37 AM
Wouldnt mind some new stages :p
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Skepticism on September 17, 2012, 01:49:18 PM
Bring back the SF2 stages I reckon.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on September 17, 2012, 02:31:40 PM
Bring back the SF2 stages I reckon.

Fuckin eh. Designs are already there, just 3D it.

Sagats drop out Ultra and corner miss hits (ibuki) should be fixed. Not that I think they will fix any of that stuff you mentioned Hong. They've had 3 versions to sort shit and left it so I can't see them changing it now.



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: FOOTSKRAYZIE on September 17, 2012, 05:33:19 PM
Buff DeeJay.
Give DeeJay an overhead.
Nerf Fei Long the cheating kunt
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on September 17, 2012, 07:10:17 PM
lol footskrazyie. I hate Deejay vs Rufus with a vengeance! Alongside Gief and Blanka.

What do they have in common? Extremely good anti-dive kick shenanigan moves.

I've revised what I want.

Cammy damage nerf, especially on U1 and her heavy normals. Less horizontal distance on her dp. Less block stun on cannon spiral and slower startup.

Seth? 800/800

E.Ryu, 6 frame sweep. St.jab +6 on hit. 950/900. Akuma teleport with ability to cancel into U2 DUHR (just kidding)

Rufus needs ex messiah not to whiff on point blank but it's valid for some to shrink hurtbox I guess.

Gouken, ex.tatsu hits crouching, omg I would love that.

Dudley, 4 frame overhead. Lol. This is now a joke post. But seriously 15 frames? Anyone in the zone can react that. (I cant react to Juri 20f overhead though, not used to it lol) Dudley is the 50/50 man.

Guile 420 U2 damage. OG sonic boom meter build.

That's everyone I play.

As for Zangief, just delete him. lol i kid. Just draw his arms 3 times longer so it makes more sense. Otherwise I'm versing a magical Russian dude.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on September 17, 2012, 09:04:42 PM
buff rose! poor rose sucks so bad, at least give her an overheard
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on September 18, 2012, 10:29:26 AM
I don't think there's much tweaking needing done really.

I'd like Cammy altered just a little to make her not so flow chart, probably a damage nerf similar to Fei Longs.

Seth's not THAT bad, at least he's dead if YOU guess right. Again maybe a small tweak somewhere. Same with Viper.

Everyone else is ok. Having picked up Gouken for the past 6 weeks the tatsu hitting low would be a no brainer. Either that our give him a true block string/combo from jabs into fireball.

Guiles U2 is a joke, so yeah maybe that. Evil Ryu's fine, he's 1 change away from being crazy OP.

There are not a heap of changes you can make so it puts them in a situation where, do you please everyone by doing something or just pick out individual fixes? It's doubtful they would revise a new addition for the latter so the likely scenario is either no changes across the board in favour of game modes and aesthetics or all changes and the games fucked again.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: AtomicX on September 18, 2012, 02:17:06 PM
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/sep/17/more-large-updates-capcom-fighters-not-very-likely-key-people-needed-currently-working-other-things/ (http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/sep/17/more-large-updates-capcom-fighters-not-very-likely-key-people-needed-currently-working-other-things/)

Good news, don't touch the freaking game!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on September 18, 2012, 02:43:19 PM
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/sep/17/more-large-updates-capcom-fighters-not-very-likely-key-people-needed-currently-working-other-things/ (http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/sep/17/more-large-updates-capcom-fighters-not-very-likely-key-people-needed-currently-working-other-things/)

Good news, don't touch the freaking game!

Good I guess from a game perspective. I would still really like some alternate stages to keep things fresh.

Charge me and I'll pay. I guess that does open a whole can of "what if I don't want the extra stages" scenario which then I suppose could default to the training stage. Much like the costumes.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: hongvantran on September 18, 2012, 04:59:25 PM
Bring back the SF2 stages I reckon.

Fuckin eh. Designs are already there, just 3D it.

Sagats drop out Ultra and corner miss hits (ibuki) should be fixed. Not that I think they will fix any of that stuff you mentioned Hong. They've had 3 versions to sort shit and left it so I can't see them changing it now.

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: t00thlesstiger on October 05, 2012, 08:00:05 AM
Turn battle boints into player tweaks ie chain armour or strength bracelets etc.

Turn fight matches into movie mode such as asura's wrath vids
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Alexk on October 10, 2012, 10:36:05 PM
The key people working on other things


....isn't that a bad thing for the new things then?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on October 13, 2012, 01:39:13 AM
The key people working on other things


....isn't that a bad thing for the new things then?

Yep, means fuck all chance of anything being added to SFIV, maybe in 5 years time on the next gen systems they'll release a version letting you play all versions of SFIV characters against each others, didn't the release a SF2 like that?

Anyway they're probably working on Darkstalkers now.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Nost. ULTRA on October 26, 2012, 11:11:37 AM
As for Zangief, just delete him. lol i kid. Just draw his arms 3 times longer so it makes more sense.

hahahaha, word up!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013 ?
Post by: water_ling on January 21, 2013, 12:43:24 PM
Still a chance for AE 2013?
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/nov/30/yoshinori-ono-gauging-interest-update-super-street-fighter-4-arcade-edition-v2012-twitter/
Please give Makoto, Rose & Thigh Fighter 1000 health.

Low health should only be given to characters with lots of GOOD options. I don't see how Chun Li and Rose have better moves than someone like Fei Long.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: BobJoeKill on January 23, 2013, 07:58:54 PM
I like to see cammy, Seth and viper to get a nerf. I also like to see a patch to stop people doing unblockable setups
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Pope Tyler I on January 24, 2013, 12:25:12 AM
I like to see cammy, Seth and viper to get a nerf. I also like to see a patch to stop people doing unblockable setups

Unless I am mistaken that is fairly fundamental to the game engine with the whole horizontal flipping and hitboxes moving about during block and strike animations and shit.  I suspect if they "fixed" unblockables they would fuck a few hundred other things up in the attempt.

I thought this thread was dead?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Cabjoy on January 24, 2013, 12:13:00 PM
Just so it's hear in the thread, though I'm sure you've all seen it already :)

http://p.twipple.jp/jG0LR
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on January 24, 2013, 05:36:08 PM
Unless I am mistaken that is fairly fundamental to the game engine with the whole horizontal flipping and hitboxes moving about during block and strike animations and shit.  I suspect if they "fixed" unblockables they would fuck a few hundred other things up in the attempt.

It's not UNblockable but it does require strict timing to block. Or just wiggle the stick as per Latif;
http://shoryuken.com/2012/12/05/rzrlatif-explains-how-to-block-unblockables-in-ae-2012/
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on January 26, 2013, 12:00:13 AM
Explaination starts at 5 minutes.

But ty that is good to know!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Cowie on January 26, 2013, 08:36:18 AM
(http://media.eventhubs.com/images/2013/01/23_onosf4.jpg)
It's coming!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on January 26, 2013, 09:31:27 PM
Onoo wants to fix it up and I hope the CAPCOM management let's him do it. As much as I want more characters/trials/stages, a free balance update will satisfy me.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Alexk on January 28, 2013, 01:39:27 AM
I'm getting a vibe that they want to nerf unblocks and the like but that sounds like a massive change. I have no idea what to expect from the newer edition.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: 2dgamer on January 29, 2013, 01:36:06 PM
Im thinking add a few new characters, one of them definately being Asura, then a few character's from Capcom vs Snk2, like Eagle, rolento, Maki, and Morrigan, or some sf3 characters like alex and oro, and sfa3 Karin.

if you need to have it balanced:

Asura- Asura's wrath
Karin- Sakura Ganbaru
Rolento- sf1
Eagle- sf1
Oro- Sf3
and Alex- sf3 

I have done the math, and the match ups. By adding these characters the game will remain balanced as well as provide more depth of play. no over the top characters just great game play.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on January 29, 2013, 02:09:31 PM
Quote
I have done the math, and the match ups. By adding these characters the game will remain balanced as well as provide more depth of play. no over the top characters just great game play.

 ;D WUT...not sure if serious.....  :o

This game needs nothing but some tweaks to Cammy and maybe Akuma and get rid of the unblockables.

As for extra's new training modes and extra stages would be a bonus.

Also give Yang his j.mk back. Mix up character with a shit dive kick and no cross up...... :o Also maybe give Sagat something, like fucking anything. Dude's got like 15 bad matches.

Introducing new characters will just make more problems.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on January 29, 2013, 03:31:22 PM
Rose needs something to be competitive, she has so much potential.

An overhead or buff her reversal.. or make U1 able to catch juggles like most other characters can.. etc
Make soul throw input stricter! accidental soul throws kill us so hard.

Be able to have fight request on while in training mode! :)

That's my dream..

I hope they DON'T add more characters or nerf low to mid tiers at all.

PS. Remove seth from game   ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on January 29, 2013, 03:41:15 PM
Also Chun is more iconic to the series and unique than even Cammy. She deserves to be up there in high-mid tier with Ryu and Ken atleast.. my 2c
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on January 29, 2013, 08:17:16 PM
(http://media.eventhubs.com/images/2013/01/23_onosf4.jpg)
It's coming!

Rather them unveil Street Fighter V for Orbis/Durango (Sony/MS) @ E3.

Day fucking 1.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Pope Tyler I on January 29, 2013, 10:42:59 PM
Fight request for ranked/endless or both and available from arcade or training mode would be easy to implement and make a lot of folks happy, I'd wager.
Online 1v1 training mode, possibly with spectators.
Replay option when only two players in endless lobby (inb4 Gam).
Option for simultaneous heats in tournament mode.
Remove Cammy.  Just kidding.  Seriously, give her a teleport already.
Stop Sakura's skirt from flapping up all the time.
Give Gief long ropey arms like Mr Tickle so Max will stop whining.
Add Buu.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on January 30, 2013, 11:06:37 AM
Good thing that 2dgamer & Pope Tyler I aren't in charge of SSF4AE2013(or 2014?) edition...

Buff the SF4 girls! Balance patch only, make it free download and no new characters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on January 30, 2013, 11:15:17 AM
Buff the SF4 girls! Balance patch only, make it free download and no new characters.

Buff the girls like cammy, viper, sakura and ibuki?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on January 30, 2013, 12:02:02 PM
Stick to nice girls like Chun, Juri, Rosa and Makoto.. Give them a full health bar already.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Alexk on January 30, 2013, 01:41:28 PM
Well apparently Japan is bored of the game says Tokido. Changes wont bring in new players. Will be interesting to see what Capcom does with that.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: 17yearoldwarrior. on January 30, 2013, 01:57:58 PM
Well apparently Japan is bored of the game says Tokido. Changes wont bring in new players. Will be interesting to see what Capcom does with that.


stweet fightah alphra 4
its ironic though that st has less mechanics but is still strongly supported in japan, while sf4 has a much more shit but they are already bored of it  :o
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on January 30, 2013, 03:26:00 PM
I'd take that with a grain of salt. It's not like their online or arcade scenes are dead.

SF4 was a huge success, i hope they realise why and stick with the 'less is more' & 'slower is more strategic' approach to game mechanics for the next games..
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: DBW on January 30, 2013, 05:35:11 PM
Give Gen a

-Hadoken
-Teleport
-Raging Demon
-FADC'able Gekiro
-Geese-style counters
-Chain Combos
-Alpha Counter
-1000 health
-1000 stun
-His old look as a costume
-An air throw
-A crossup slash
-Super Jump
-KoF roll
-Super Taunt
-Poison damage on Shitenketsu
-MKhands
-A 360 command grab
-Stretchy arms
-Gill's Resurrection
-Sean's B-Ball taunt
-Electric spam
-Parries
-Pushblock
-Snapback
-The announcer from MSHvsSF shouting his moves
-Centrelink
-0f super
-Maximum Spider
-Mega Buster


And 2013 will be a fair and balanced patch
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on January 30, 2013, 07:48:07 PM
I'd take that with a grain of salt. It's not like their online or arcade scenes are dead.

There's a difference between dead and bored. a SF5 in 2014 would be way more hype then a 4th update. Yeah I'm sure a lot of you guys will think SF5 is crap, a lot of SF3 players felt the same about IV, it happens.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on January 30, 2013, 08:39:57 PM
I'd take that with a grain of salt. It's not like their online or arcade scenes are dead.

There's a difference between dead and bored. a SF5 in 2014 would be way more hype then a 4th update. Yeah I'm sure a lot of you guys will think SF5 is crap, a lot of SF3 players felt the same about IV, it happens.

They could do both  ;)

I'm thinking the work they would have to do for 2014 version would be minimal. Just what do Capcom workers do all day anyway...  ;D

I'm not really fussed to be honest. Some new stages and music would be nice at the very least to just fresh it up a bit. I'd pay  $20 for that.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on January 31, 2013, 10:54:37 PM
give me poison! i just had a nice long session of xTekken and realized how op she would be in AE

also we need more op females in AE :Kappa:
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on February 01, 2013, 02:43:18 AM
They shud just nerf the top 4-5. add some new stages and costume customization.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Cowie on February 01, 2013, 10:51:55 AM
They shud just nerf the top 4-5. add some new stages and costume customization.

+ a third ultra for each char.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on February 01, 2013, 10:52:03 AM
They shud just nerf the top 4-5. add some new stages and costume customization.

Buff the weak, but leave the strong and capable characters be. Investigate ambiguous cross-up bullshit that doesn't break the game (frankly I think this could be achieved by extending the hitbox 'back' on crossup attacks so they not only become BETTER cross-up attacks, but in doing so trigger directional blocking clearer for would be opponents).

Costume customisation would be interesting ONLY if you had the ability to disable it on your end. Some of the silly shit that people chose to do in SFxT for example was garish and annoying as all hell and you had no choice but to endure it. I say let people go hogwild with their own customisations (colour or whatever) but leave the person they are playing with an option to deny or disable customisations appearing on their end.

Stages would be kinda cool. Those of us on PC have a whole bunch now and they really do help freshen things up. Official ones would be nice though.

Like I mentioned earlier I'd like to see all characters get at least ONE new special or command normal. I'd also like to see the wallbounce mechanic expanded a little more, but as others have said doing so stands to deviate a little from what 'street fighter' is supposed to play like.

How about taunting issues little bonuses ala Third Strike? Next attack does 30% more damage or additional stun maybe. Perhaps a little meter gain?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Zeekin on February 01, 2013, 02:33:59 PM
I wouldn't be particularly sad to see cammy get some nerfs. Watching her run people over with her mostly safe, and often ambiguous mix-up gets pretty boring.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on February 01, 2013, 02:37:40 PM
They shud just nerf the top 4-5. add some new stages and costume customization.

+ a third ultra for each char.

That would be overkill. And could potentially change matchups too much.

Quote
Costume customisation would be interesting ONLY if you had the ability to disable it on your end. Some of the silly shit that people chose to do in SFxT for example was garish and annoying as all hell and you had no choice but to endure it. I say let people go hogwild with their own customisations (colour or whatever) but leave the person they are playing with an option to deny or disable customisations appearing on their end.

agreed.


the taunting stuff could be cool also. i dont know about the wall bounce shit though lol play sfxt geezer!


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: AtomicX on March 23, 2013, 03:45:12 AM
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/mar/22/capcom-announces-new-update-street-fighter-4-pax-east/ (http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/mar/22/capcom-announces-new-update-street-fighter-4-pax-east/)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 23, 2013, 06:00:55 AM
Yes!!!! I hope they reward solid play this version. Buff sagat you fucking bastards!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Niah on March 23, 2013, 08:00:56 AM
give vega a invincible ex scarlet terror! also scarlet terror to ultra, and a comboable super with his knee! that's all i want...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Alexk on March 23, 2013, 11:22:18 AM
http://www.lowlandlions.com/2011/content/News/WWMCZRyan_Hart_praat_met_Ryo_BAS_Yoshida-4328.html (http://www.lowlandlions.com/2011/content/News/WWMCZRyan_Hart_praat_met_Ryo_BAS_Yoshida-4328.html)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on March 23, 2013, 11:49:47 AM
Hmm so they're doing 10 characters per week? I like how week 4 is stacked with all the top tier characters lol: Cammy, Seth, Akuma, C. Viper, Adon, Fei Long

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with how balanced v2013 is. I'd rather additional characters (Hugo & Elena pls).
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on March 24, 2013, 02:28:05 PM
Super Street Fighter IV Ganbare Daigo Edition Ver 2013

Buffs to Ryu
Nerfs to Akuma, Cammy and Fei Long

Lets win Evo + Next Topanaga league Daigo!
;p @ Infiltration, Fuudo and Xiahou

P.S Remember how salty as fuck Akuma and Fei Long players where at the start of 2012? You know before Fuudo and Infiltration proved that those two were still some of the strongest characters in the game, well boys lets get ready for a show since those two characters are going to get the shit nerfed out of them, for real this time.

SRK forums for them two are going to be lolz.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on March 24, 2013, 02:54:26 PM
SRK forums for them two are going to be lolz.

Many of the Akuma dudes are already starting to get predictably emotional. Very few of them agreed that the 2012 nerfs to him were fair and justified. I recall arguing on SRK about how they made sense with the big picture in mind - hell, a lot of dudes wanted buffs - it was ridiculous. It was a curious case of character rebalancing being critiqued in a vacuum.

My only concern as an Akuma player is if they go the SFxT nerfing route with the character, which on the whole renders him sluggish. I'm totally fine with improving the 'feel' of characters (Guy and Cody's improved walk-speed in 2012 come to mind) whereas negating a character's feel (as part of rebalancing) in this sense is very uncool. Attack utility, not feel. SFxT chose an interesting set of defensive nerfs to him which make sense in combating cowardly run-away strategies, but on the whole they strap a couple of concrete blocks to a character's feet who relies a lot on mobility and options bought for the price of health and stun.

I'm expecting palm recovery nerfs for sure and potentially a reduced flip grab hitbox or possibly an inability to snatch up crouchers with it. Sweep changes incoming likely too - I'm anticipating an extended hurtbox forward for it. This is in addition to the SFxT-esque jump-back air ball and reverse teleport distance reduction + extended recovery. Any buffs is patently absurd at this point, though at the same time I shit myself when they actually improved his mp SRK going into AE. Who knows, maybe we'll be able to cancel EX flip into EX air tatsu in 2013! xD

I don't see where Fei should be nerfed though, I think he got whipped into shape nicely and became a respectable and solid character - sure he does well in some matchups but all characters shine against specific opponents in some form. Cammy is a bit silly so I anticipate her to go under the microscope big time. Seth might see some changes impacting his mobility and repeatable pressure game ala the changes made to Ibuki and Akuma to prevent (or at least reduce) repeatable setups. It's the beefing up of weaker characters I am most curious about - Yang and Chun come to mind and I understand Dudley players are pining for improvements.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on March 24, 2013, 04:05:40 PM
i'm with you on that one, gamogo.  akuma's overall playstyle is fine, i don't have a problem with that, just a few tools that need readjusting (ask pope about my hatred towards his sweep [also throws/walk speed, but that's more my inability to tech]).

i'm wondering if they'll keep his stand roundhouse the same too, or make the second whiff on all crouching opponents (similar to rog's stand jab nerf). it'd probably affect his good matchups a bit too much, especially against characters like sagat.  either way, i think he's the character i'll be looking at the most from the "top tiers" (alongside cammy).

i don't know what they can do to chun except maybe improve the hit/hurtbox of her EX sbk and/or make j. mk a more reliable crossup move too. maybe make df + lk AA a bit more reliable as well.  perhaps her combos could be a bit more damaging? or make hazanshu a two-hitter/armour breaker :Kappa:

i'm expecting some adjustments to sakura in terms of damage output too. nothing huge, though

also the whining on the cammy forums will be glorious :bort:
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on March 24, 2013, 05:50:57 PM
Noone had an issue with Cammy in AE, infact most people called her shit which was far from the truth, though she clearly was inferior to her Super version (imagine Super Cammy with todays tech? lol) AE Cammy is the exact same as 2012 except they fixed how dumb they made her spiral arrow. Of course noone had an issue with Cammy than because Yun and Yang did the same shit but even easier, it was like why pick Elena in 3S when you can pick Chun instead, except Cammy was actually good.

Anyway I don't know what they'll do with Cammy, they can't revert her SA back to AE because that's just dumb,
Cammy's DP already sucks, low dmg (if you get hit by the high dmg top of the screen version, your fault lol), unsafe on block period, has horrible invincibility (seth normal dp >>>>> cammy ex dp), I expect her divekick to be given the SFxTK treatment, slow as shit but hey you can do it out of hooligan!

If they can fix unblockables she'll be fine if left alone, but yeah expecting Sfxtk divekicks for cammy and expecting the worst version of Cammy in the series, but considering she's been top 10 (or would've been) in every version, it was a good run.

Super > 2012 > Vanilla > AE

Sako and Allioune switched to her late vanilla, she would've been stupid as fuck if they had more time to work with her in that version, all she lacked was her c.lk crossup. Her stun and dmg output was ridic.

Also inc a lot of James Chen whining on streams.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on March 24, 2013, 06:09:02 PM
Gamago post on Akuma is gud. The man is so ridonk and gets in and out a lot on his own terms. What was listed would potentially give his opponents some chance to get momentum back.

Cammy doesn't hit like a girl, hits like Gouken. Frame data of spiral arrow? Slightly slower maybe or slower recovery, just a tad. Keep ridiculous ex-dive, I've grown to accept it. Damage really is too high though. Considering she can repeatedly melt you from oki jump ins, Ryu-esque buttons really hurt.

Seth... vacuum on block should really mess him up.

Dudley need to take gloves off. Hard to get in, poor reversal game, SSB is really useless. Nothing that gets him in safely at all. High/low always inferior against crossup style. One has added safety and potential to snuff backdash. Dudley big damage but the means to confirm and trap push him out so quick. Also need gdlk reaction for some of Dudley's CH combo xx duck. Which also means you're at a -5 if you cancel duck from a blocked st.hk. People should also realise counterhit st.hk pushes opponent a st.hp distance away, like what was the point of that. Secret 2012 nerf. Give him a possible CH link off st.hk but push a screen away...

Yang hits like a girl. DP is like a cr.hp. Where did his crossup go??

Rose ex-spiral 11f invulnerability 13f startup. What? I use Rufus, to me that's a normal messiah kick. Buff hurtbox of st.hp - why is everything trading with my scarf?? I just don't understand a scarf getting hit and I want to beat far jumps/dives.

Gouken ex-tatsu hit crouching.

Guile U2 damage buff.

Evil Ryu, 6f sweep (less recovery too). Akuma teleport. More damage on U1. This makes him truly Evil Ryu. Could also debate recovery of cr.mk but seeing as it has so much damnable stop on it, it's only fair that you should never whiff the damn thing.

There's no other character that I use that needs help.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on March 24, 2013, 07:14:53 PM
i don't know what they can do to chun except maybe improve the hit/hurtbox of her EX sbk and/or make j. mk a more reliable crossup move too. maybe make df + lk AA a bit more reliable as well.  perhaps her combos could be a bit more damaging? or make hazanshu a two-hitter/armour breaker :Kappa:


I think changes with Chun can be tricky. She is one (maybe two changes) away from either being broken. I totally second an armour breaking hazanshu or an armour breaker that is not completely redundant in it's use (normal sbk lulwut?!?). I'm a little torn as to whether I want to see the return of her df + lk in its former glory, but I'm leaning more towards just removing this move entirely. With the prevalence of ambiguous crossups, this move really messes up her defensive tech. Though if the move was improved to better deal with dive kicks, I would be all for it. Maybe a better vertical hitbox on one of her anti-airs wouldn't go astray.

Oh and would it be too much to ask if every single character would just fucking juggle in the corner during U1?  ;D


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on March 24, 2013, 08:05:19 PM
How about the return of her special up-kicks from ST? The mk version was fantastic. Huge initial hitbox, decent damage, reliable. I know very little of Chun, but my understanding is that she has a stack of anti-air options in IV that are unfortunately all largely situational and character specific. A go-to anti-air might be helpful for her overall game combined with something that gives her a little more explosive damage, or a slight damage buff in general. Agreed re: her U1 juggles - it seems silly to me that Ryu's U1 collects all hits with ease and sloppy timing whereas Chun and Sagat get the shit end of the stick. Hell, even Rufus' U1 is extremely forgiving - in many cases it looks like you'll fall out, but nope.

Specific match-ups aside, where does Chun struggle?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: robsux on March 24, 2013, 08:06:38 PM
i don't know what they can do to chun except maybe improve the hit/hurtbox of her EX sbk and/or make j. mk a more reliable crossup move too. maybe make df + lk AA a bit more reliable as well.  perhaps her combos could be a bit more damaging? or make hazanshu a two-hitter/armour breaker :Kappa:


I think changes with Chun can be tricky. She is one (maybe two changes) away from either being broken. I totally second an armour breaking hazanshu or an armour breaker that is not completely redundant in it's use (normal sbk lulwut?!?). I'm a little torn as to whether I want to see the return of her df + lk in its former glory, but I'm leaning more towards just removing this move entirely. With the prevalence of ambiguous crossups, this move really messes up her defensive tech. Though if the move was improved to better deal with dive kicks, I would be all for it. Maybe a better vertical hitbox on one of her anti-airs wouldn't go astray.

Oh and would it be too much to ask if every single character would just fucking juggle in the corner during U1?  ;D
OMG Armour Breaking Hazanshu now THAT I would like to see. 

It's gonna be interesting what will come out of everyone's feedback.  I'm all for input from experienced players, but input from ANYBODY would really make it difficult to separate what's reasonable, vs what's 'preferred' by the poster.  It's such a fine line. 

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zgnoud on March 24, 2013, 08:37:52 PM
If they can get Rufus ex messiah not to whiff on half the bloody cast during hit... i'll be a happy man.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on March 24, 2013, 08:39:22 PM
Balrog needs a divekick.

That is all.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 24, 2013, 09:03:14 PM
If they can get Rufus ex messiah not to whiff on half the bloody cast during hit... i'll be a happy man.

Lol so you can mash one out and get buttered? hahaha
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zgnoud on March 24, 2013, 09:12:44 PM
If they can get Rufus ex messiah not to whiff on half the bloody cast during hit... i'll be a happy man.

Lol so you can mash one out and get buttered? hahaha

This guy gets me. <3

Balrog needs a divekick.
That is all.

Woah woah, lets not get so dramatic. Give Balrog a crossup first  ;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on March 24, 2013, 11:21:24 PM

Balrog needs a divekick.
That is all.

Woah woah, lets not get so dramatic. Give Balrog a crossup first  ;)

Let the dive kick also crossup.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 25, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
The most frustrating thing im finding with these threads, is people who have no character knowledge jump in and comment like oh no dont buff that character they will be broken and op. Everybody should stick to posting what they have experience in and understand properly. I'm not gonna go posting about chun or viper why? because i have grounds to really act like i know. However there are exceptions for example if somebody asks for something ridiculous then yeah. I've had to school a fuckin ton of scrubs in the sagat thread. It is funny though watching them shut their mouths when i prove them wrong by giving examples and going in depth whereas they just say dumb shit with no explanation. they are the same fuckwitts who have ruined the game  from super onwards imo.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rip The Jacker on March 25, 2013, 10:36:28 AM
I agree with Maxsze about short-swing blow.

It's meant to be a throw bait, command grab bait, or wake-up dp bait. Right now it can be caught by throws, and at the very best it usually trades damage with a wake up DP. It can still punish command grabs, but it is unsafe on block (unless done at maximum range) and misses back dashes entirely (unless you use the EX version). It also does not have armour-break, so you can quite easily be focus crumpled.

It's a bit of a gimmick at the moment, I feel like it's not equipped to do the job it's built for.

Maybe giving it throw immunity would be a cool perk.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Silhouette on March 25, 2013, 11:51:38 AM
Make Guy and Goukens EX tatsu hit below the knees. Or make their non-ex versions faster on startup.

Also increasing Guys throw range to average would be nice.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PyroZeroX on March 25, 2013, 01:57:48 PM
We've got a bit of a community spreadsheet going if you would like to contribute.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgI1kLFLv6hbdDF0Y0wyWnRMcENYY29CSU5wZlBzb0E#gid=0

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 25, 2013, 02:09:57 PM
Judging by those system changes AU wants SFxT.

Feel sorry for Capcom, I really do.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on March 25, 2013, 02:14:00 PM
We've got a bit of a community spreadsheet going if you would like to contribute.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgI1kLFLv6hbdDF0Y0wyWnRMcENYY29CSU5wZlBzb0E#gid=0

Nice idea. Might drop a few things into this :D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: robsux on March 25, 2013, 02:22:43 PM
We've got a bit of a community spreadsheet going if you would like to contribute.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgI1kLFLv6hbdDF0Y0wyWnRMcENYY29CSU5wZlBzb0E#gid=0
this is what should have been done in the first place exactly by  Capcom.    Nice Job!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on March 25, 2013, 02:30:20 PM
Everybody should stick to posting what they have experience in and understand properly.

Yeah true. Probably best to just make suggestions on the character you're most familiar with and not have batshit crazy requests.

In saying that, here's what I think Balrog should really get for his changes:

- All dash punches should armour break

- cr.hk should be combo-able off cr.lp

- Headbutt should be FADC-able

- lp headbutt safe on block (like in ST)

- Complete overhaul to overhead smash: lp is safe on block, mp unsafe on block but is twice as fast, hp unsafe on block but twice the damage, ex safe on block and twice as fast but no extra damage

- U1 damage increased on headbutt combos

- U2 increased range and 2f startup

- Give him a dive kick (I don't know, this one might make him a little OP)

If all those changes were implemented, then just maybe Balrog might become competitive.


Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PyroZeroX on March 25, 2013, 02:36:25 PM
I have little to no experience with Boxer.
I would say Boxer is competitive.

Armour break on all dash punches?
Safe headbutts and overheads?
Combo into untechable from any situation?

You gotta ride Santas lap pretty hard for that wish list.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 25, 2013, 02:46:04 PM

I don't see where Fei should be nerfed though, I think he got whipped into shape nicely and became a respectable and solid character - sure he does well in some matchups but all characters shine against specific opponents in some form. Cammy is a bit silly so I anticipate her to go under the microscope big time.

Seriously if they nerf Fei it's a travesty. He's just about perfect now. The only possible thing that's worth nefing is his EX rekka which is crazy good.

I mean what are we talking here? Second rekka even further disadvantage on block? Are Fei Long players going to start eating full Ultra because they let a negative edge rekka slip out? His damage got lowered, he lost his jab KD, Rekka's are punishable by almost everyone, his CW does less damage and is non-invincible.

If they nerf Fei he'll just become the way of Yang except there's almost nothing fun about playing Fei Long. You'll never see him again, he'll just slip into mid table obscurity.

People should learn the damn match up, It's not like he's putting you in guess 50/50 burn kicks or EX dive kicks. He's just a solid character.

It's far better to buff up Ryu, Sagat, Guile, Gouken etc  than to kill off characters. You've just got a Yang scenario all over again.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 25, 2013, 02:51:38 PM


Yeah true. Probably best to just make suggestions on the character you're most familiar with and not have batshit crazy requests.


 ;D Then proceeds to make bat shit crazy requests........
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Captain on March 25, 2013, 03:42:14 PM
All I want for them to do to honda is just take him back to how he was in super. U2 being like gief's U1 with less damage would be great too. If they let you cancel the overhead to U2 I'd be in heaven.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: MadeManG74 on March 25, 2013, 03:48:04 PM
Add Birdie as a playable character, other than that I dun give a fuck what they change.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on March 25, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
We've got a bit of a community spreadsheet going if you would like to contribute.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgI1kLFLv6hbdDF0Y0wyWnRMcENYY29CSU5wZlBzb0E#gid=0

Nice idea. Might drop a few things into this :D

Aww, someone ruined it :/

Curious if you have the ability to roll back versions, as there was some great stuff in there.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 25, 2013, 09:06:21 PM
I just read most of the stuff. Pretty good.

I think the Cammy nerfs are a little on the extreme side.

I don't see how making E.Ryu's sweep connect after a tatsu is too strong. His vortex is average.

Kens on the other hand would possibly make him too strong. Sagat would be fucked.

Ryu sweep cancel is retarded (what's it with sweeps on this sheet!)

Fei Long + 1 on the cr.lk is probably not needed unless he gets nerfed in another area.

Sagat 3frame uppercut? I want buffs but comon ......  ;D

Guile FADC air grab is already the sexiest shit on the spreadsheet. Do it.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: ayyitsrobert on March 25, 2013, 09:20:10 PM

i'm expecting some adjustments to sakura in terms of damage output too. nothing huge, though


i saw the sakura forums. all these people saying how sakura lk tatsu should be -1 on block. now that's just stupid. i can understand people wanting ex tatsu +4 on block to be lowered, but lk tatsu to -1? you're essentially going to kill so much of sakura's pressure if that happens.

i wouldn't mind much damage changing nerfing to sakura, but not too much though, her health isn't exactly great. and her defensive options aren't exactly anything either. any decent reversal from her would take meter. essentially she's a glass cannon, kind of like akuma, except her defensive options are ass. all she has is very good offense and pressure.

also people complaining about sakura's OP jump in hp and hk, that's understandable. but if you take that away from her, how would sakura be able to effectively get in and maintain pressure? all her setups would also be changed and you may even be able to DP her out of her setups. she'll be a completely different character.

i just hope capcom take's a whole lot of care when listening to people on sakura. why not just leave her alone or just nerf her damage slightly, then buff the characters?

bottom line; buff other characters so they have better options against the higher to top tier characters. like... buff oni. that character is just off the radar.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sexyfella on March 25, 2013, 09:58:35 PM
Guile maybe better recovery on low flash kick so that it can combo into ultra 2 without fadc but with lower damage of course
Give him back his meter gain like super version and maybe make linking into crouching medium punch a two frame link. Fadc into air grab pretty cool idea i guess but pales in usefulness compared to my ideas.

Guy he needs his ultra 2 to have similar property to zangiefs ultra 1 meaning that once the ultra 2 is activated next to an opponent one can not just jump or mash dp to safety unless the jump or dp was inputted before the ultra got activated hopefully that makes sense. Also guy should be able to fadc into his izuna drop for fucks sake or be able to combo into bushin flip.

Sagat could use a damage boost also faster recovery on low kick/punch tiger shot with less damage and fully connect ultra 1 in corner and ultra 2 to get all hits after fadc just like ryu maybe less damage etc.

Cody to change his charging attack into a dragon punch motion and maybe extra damage on fadc into ultra 1 he hits a like a tank any more buffs he will be considered A tier.

Deejay should be able to fully connect his ultra 1 after a  ex mashine gun upper with less damage ofcourse and make his ultra 2 have more damage after ex mashine gun upper cause it is a harder combo.


This are the character i have most experience in and if any of them get the afore mentioned change ideas that would be nice especially for guy and guile those two really need some buffs
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: norri on March 26, 2013, 01:07:26 AM
Give Gouken a teleport, a backdash that goes a quarter of the screen, make all his tatsus a 1 frame reversal, and make it so that they can all hit low.  Make his palms completely invincible from start to finish, make his air parry parry armor breakers...  Give cammy and viper less clothing..  Chun needs to lose some weight from her thighs.  Hakan needs to be able to rub his oil on the other characters. 
Make Ken cornier than he already is..  Give Yun bigger breasts so that I'll stop mistaking her for a guy.  YOU HOU!!  What else..   
Delete cody from the game.. Add more stages.  Get rid of all Seth's special moves.  He can keep his u1 and that's it. 
That'll do.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on March 26, 2013, 07:24:41 AM
give Dudley a cross up

make his rosé have chip damage

safe on block ex machine gun blow

give ex duck invincibility till end frame

faster start up on all his thunderbolt moves.

Make light short swing blow invincible to 70% air attacks.

Ultra 1 reach like Seths long arms.

Easier hit confirms for target combos.

No nerfs jst buffs capcom smh.-.-
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on March 26, 2013, 12:09:15 PM
Lol @ those Cammy changes, why don't you add delete character.

@ heavy

Don't worry about these lists, pretty sure capcom has already made their mind up and thus is just a pr thing. Some wander is going to list a change and think he influenced it.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: RYBL on March 26, 2013, 12:27:23 PM
Change Gief's c.lk back from 4 frame startup to 3 frame startup. It would make 4x c.lk a 2 frame link, and give him back the c.mp>c.lk 1frame link.

And I miss that combo.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 26, 2013, 12:34:47 PM
Give Gouken a


Not that I play Gouken a lot but from my brief dabbles with him the EX tatsu hitting low is a no brainer. 

I've often thought also if he had some kind of hit confirm into LP palm or fireball from jabs it would allow him to push characters back a little. That seems to be his main problem, once your on him it's hard to get anyone off and if you do score a tech mash there's nothing you can do but to finish the jabs which leaves him at an awkward spacing.

Quote
Don't worry about these lists, pretty sure capcom has already made their mind up and thus is just a pr thing. Some wander is going to list a change and think he influenced it.


Probably. It would still be interesting like Gamogo mentions to see how the changes are thought out. To see if there is method to the madness or if it's just a leap of faith.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 26, 2013, 12:52:29 PM
These are the changes I would suggest for my main, Yun:

Give back dash 2 or 3 frame extra recovery, as it is his is on par with Chun's which doesn't make sense since he is a pure rush down character. Him having a godlike backdash is kinda like giving Sim an uppercut.

Make lunge less unsafe. It's extremely difficult to space lunge correctly, as it is you have about a pixel of horizontal space between being +1 and -329846238746 on block, or -19823764982376498276349827364 on whiff. Give regular lunges slightly less recovery so that they are still unsafe at certain ranges, but the range within which they are safe is slightly bigger. Also, make EX -3 if not spaced correctly. As it is, you have about 80km of horizontal space within which you can safely EX lunge. So TL,DR: Make normal lunge easier to space correctly and EX lunge harder to space correctly.

Give DP slightly more recovery. On too many characters you can just sail away from their ambiguous jump ins and expect very little in the way of a punishment, short of an OS ultra or something (which many characters can't do).

Reduce EX command grab range and make it hit invuln, so it'd be more or less the same as Abel's EX TT.

Most importantly, give Yun some alts and colours that don't look shit. The Chef suit is OK but alt 3 is hideous, and all colours except the defaults suck.

I also have some suggestions about Akuma: Remove his air fireball. Better yet, remove him from the game except as a CPU controlled boss in arcade mode. Broken bullshit character.



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Falco on March 26, 2013, 02:43:10 PM
i like that the current community thoughts on are gief are dont worry hes russian
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rip The Jacker on March 26, 2013, 02:46:35 PM
Да... также, никто не заботится о русскиm.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GirlsDigMyScore on March 26, 2013, 03:14:50 PM
Ryu solarplexus strike to c.fp, make it easier to link. In fact 1 frame links are fucking stupid and should be changed to 2 frame links or whatever so you don't lose games for dropping your stupid 1 frame link. I think they are one of the reasons why the game is LESS fun.

Nerf Rufus stupid ex messiah kick.

Cody jump forward roundhouse needs something done to it, it trades too often instead of getting beaten by reversal, same with Dudley stupid forward jump fp or whatever it is that gives him a huge elbow drop move.

Make Seth standing fierce punch always be FP and stretchy arms be forward plus FP, just to have more control over it for defending the air

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on March 26, 2013, 04:05:36 PM
cody crack kick = airborne... that is all
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on March 26, 2013, 04:11:48 PM
Cody jump forward roundhouse needs something done to it, it trades too often instead of getting beaten by reversal, same with Dudley stupid forward jump fp or whatever it is that gives him a huge elbow drop move.

this. jump in moves should not be anti-anti air. if your opponent reads your jump in, he should not be punished for uppercutting you.  way too many trades with dudley on my tiger uppercut, even from crouching..
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 26, 2013, 04:13:07 PM
Cody jump forward roundhouse needs something done to it, it trades too often instead of getting beaten by reversal, same with Dudley stupid forward jump fp or whatever it is that gives him a huge elbow drop move.

this. jump in moves should not be anti-anti air. if your opponent reads your jump in, he should not be punished for uppercutting you  way too many trades with dudley on my tiger uppercut, even from crouching..

Oh yeah, Dudley's jumping elbow thing is retarded.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on March 26, 2013, 04:50:52 PM
Cody jump forward roundhouse needs something done to it, it trades too often instead of getting beaten by reversal, same with Dudley stupid forward jump fp or whatever it is that gives him a huge elbow drop move.

this. jump in moves should not be anti-anti air. if your opponent reads your jump in, he should not be punished for uppercutting you.  way too many trades with dudley on my tiger uppercut, even from crouching..

I thought Sagat enjoys the uppercut trades... and Dudley's jump in is the least of everybody's problems XD
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 26, 2013, 05:15:54 PM
You can't trade with Dudley's elbow into Ultra though which is one of the reasons Dudley does well in that match (among other things, Ultra, Duck punch through FB's etc etc).

They should keep that in the game though really since dudley is ass. I don't mind certain moves having different properties than normal. It keeps match ups varied.

There's a lot of things Dudley doesn't have the other characters can take for granted. It's all relative really.

Some clowns on the Capcom website are asking for Sagats EX TK to be -3 or 4 on block which would make it unusable. There's no use looking at individual move's unless you can asses the whole character.  ;) That's why this shouldn't be decided by Joe smo  8)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bored on March 26, 2013, 05:28:39 PM
cody crack kick = airborne... that is all

yes prease

and if i was being greedy:

U2 partial connect to recover before opponent... :-[
another slight slight slight walkspeed buff?  :-* :-*

and if was being stupid greedy:

make 2hit overhead comboable on hit standing or crouching (unplinkable 1f link to cr.lk)  8)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 26, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
You can't trade with Dudley's elbow into Ultra though which is one of the reasons Dudley does well in that match (among other things, Ultra, Duck punch through FB's etc etc).

They should keep that in the game though really since dudley is ass. I don't mind certain moves having different properties than normal. It keeps match ups varied.

There's a lot of things Dudley doesn't have the other characters can take for granted. It's all relative really.

Some clowns on the Capcom website are asking for Sagats EX TK to be -3 or 4 on block which would make it unusable. There's no use looking at individual move's unless you can asses the whole character.  ;) That's why this shouldn't be decided by Joe smo  8)

What is it currently? 0? It should be -1 at least. Maybe -2 to make the Sagat/Gief matchup less of a joke. No one should have such an easy in, especially not a zoning character.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on March 26, 2013, 05:56:55 PM
(unplinkable 1f link to cr.lk)  8)

cr.lk is plinkable? with jab? but only when crouched??!?!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bored on March 26, 2013, 06:08:29 PM
(unplinkable 1f link to cr.lk)  8)

cr.lk is plinkable? with jab? but only when crouched??!?!

i mean, overhead on hit comboable to cr.lk whether opponent is crouching or standing. i think now its only possible if you hit them while they are standing.

and im pretty sure you can plink cr.lk with select....
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on March 26, 2013, 06:35:36 PM
yeah it only works when standing and maybe if you only get the second hit with a counterhit, but im sure you can plink cr.lk with jab and jab can be plinked with select/back, yes
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 26, 2013, 07:08:39 PM
yeah it only works when standing and maybe if you only get the second hit with a counterhit, but im sure you can plink cr.lk with jab and jab can be plinked with select/back, yes

Yes.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 26, 2013, 07:28:13 PM

What is it currently? 0? It should be -1 at least. Maybe -2 to make the Sagat/Gief matchup less of a joke. No one should have such an easy in, especially not a zoning character.

You see that's exactly what I mean. Sagat doesn't use it to "get in" he uses it to get you out.

Cammy - EX Dive Kick
Fei Long - EX Rekka
Rufus - EX messiah
Adon - EX everything
Yun - EX Lunge

EX moves are supposed to be good.

The list goes on. Characters with TONS more options , set ups and unblockables with highly bullshit EX moves in the back pocket yet Sagat get's shit for having a shite special (TK is rubbish) that's only remotely good (can be stuffed/traded easily) if he waste's a bar?

People just not thinking straight.... at all.....

Make it -2 if you like but any more -  why would a Sagat player waste meter on such a shite move? Sure I'll just EX TK to get in (because I'm a zoner????) and then you can jab combo me if you like.....  ???

Trust me, I play Fei Long. His EX rekka is almost broken its that good. Cammy..well.....nuff said.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 26, 2013, 08:09:17 PM

What is it currently? 0? It should be -1 at least. Maybe -2 to make the Sagat/Gief matchup less of a joke. No one should have such an easy in, especially not a zoning character.

You see that's exactly what I mean. Sagat doesn't use it to "get in" he uses it to get you out.

Cammy - EX Dive Kick
Fei Long - EX Rekka
Rufus - EX messiah
Adon - EX everything
Yun - EX Lunge

EX moves are supposed to be good.

The list goes on. Characters with TONS more options , set ups and unblockables with highly bullshit EX moves in the back pocket yet Sagat get's shit for having a shite special (TK is rubbish) that's only remotely good (can be stuffed/traded easily) if he waste's a bar?

People just not thinking straight.... at all.....

Make it -2 if you like but any more -  why would a Sagat player waste meter on such a shite move? Sure I'll just EX TK to get in (because I'm a zoner????) and then you can jab combo me if you like.....  ???

Trust me, I play Fei Long. His EX rekka is almost broken its that good. Cammy..well.....nuff said.

How can a move which propels him forward and puts him at point blank range not be considered getting in? Pretty stupid way of getting out. And most of those moves you listed have weaknesses TK doesn't, on top of which, they're all rush down characters or at least without fireballs. Making it -1 or -2 would mean it'd be closer to what you seem to think it is. Some sort of defensive move. As it is, it's just an easy way to force a 50/50 guessing game on your opponent.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 26, 2013, 08:34:19 PM
it's used for both pushing out and getting in. Depends on the sagat and meter situation.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 26, 2013, 09:07:30 PM

And most of those moves you listed have weaknesses TK doesn't,

He is -1 already if I remember correctly (Heavy could confirm). -2 I guess then grapplers could have a better fight.

Quote
As it is, it's just an easy way to force a 50/50 guessing game on your opponent.


Surely not serious here are you? Your giving Sagat's shit for having an easy way to force a 50/50?????  ;D 

Welcome to SF4AE - Unblockable Vortex edition

Like I said in another board I'm fine with giving Sagat minor buffs but only if they strip off half the bullshit that Zoners (not just Sagat) have to put up with.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 26, 2013, 09:10:33 PM

And most of those moves you listed have weaknesses TK doesn't,

He is -1 already if I remember correctly (Heavy could confirm). -2 I guess then grapplers could have a better fight.

Quote
As it is, it's just an easy way to force a 50/50 guessing game on your opponent.


Surely not serious here are you? Your giving Sagat's shit for having an easy way to force a 50/50?????  ;D 

Welcome to SF4AE - Unblockable Vortex edition

Like I said in another board I'm fine with giving Sagat minor buffs but only if the strip off half the bullshit that Zoners (not just Sagat) have to put up with.

That's the bed you made though. When I play Sim, I'm just as likely to lose when I'm pressured as you are. More so, in fact, because I don't have a DP. In fact if half the cast knocks me down I'm done, unless they make a stupid mistake.

The point is to not allow yourself to be put in that situation in the first place.

If the EX is already -1 that's fair, IMO, though I've never seen a reversal 1 frame ultra punish it.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 26, 2013, 09:31:35 PM

The point is to not allow yourself to be put in that situation in the first place.


Easier said than done when half the cast are either designed or have an Ultra that lets them by pass zoning with ease. Also his Tiger Uppercut is not damaging enough to deter people from jumping. 

Seriously though it's something I never even thought people bothered about. EX knee, yeah I mean it's ok, it's not this beast move that some folk are making it out to be. Sure Sagat can use it as an offence tool to get in but if it's blocked Sagat's in as much strife as the opponent. The one place you usually don't want to be with Sagat is in someones face at neutral.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 26, 2013, 10:17:00 PM
it is not a cheap 50-50 and its actually not even a true 50-50. Delay crouch tech and focus o.s tech back dash beats it completely. You just don't apply all the methods to stop it. Sagats ex is not that great, but its not bad either. Primarily its good for pushing out of a corner or closing the gap if you want to get in . however it loses to normals and can be fireballed as well as ultrad. it's -1 complain about cammy ex dive kick which can cross up combo straight into ultra break tech and score a counter hit and continued into a combo. Thats bullshit not sagats knee. SMH
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 26, 2013, 10:41:10 PM
Trying to stuff Sagat's EX knee is a bad risk/reward scenario for the other guy. Back dash and punish is doable if you're prepared.

I have to take risks to close the gap on Sagat as it is, I'm not going to add to the shitfest by taking more risks when I'm turtling.

Anyway, I wasn't complaining about the move. Just trying to look at it impartially.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 26, 2013, 10:54:53 PM
if you block it theres not 50-50 after it if you know how to defend properly thats my main point.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 26, 2013, 10:57:26 PM
Oh and Soji i'll take you up on that money match you mentioned to somniac :) Sagat dhalsim? Sagat yun? 100$
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 27, 2013, 12:13:58 AM
Yeah, $100. Sim VS you. I'm confident I'll take Somniac. Even if he's 10 times better than when he played me online, he'll still lose.

I don't know about you, but all Sagats are the same deal. Beatable with Sim.

Not sure about Toxy. He uses a broken character, so there's that. And I don't understand the Akuma match up yet anyway. I'm still deciding how best to react to air fireballs.

It's not a true 50/50, sure. But it may as well be. I can delay tech, but you can delay your DP. If it's -1 you can't instantly throw to beat delay tech the way Yun used to be able to after EX lunge. So that's OK.



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on March 27, 2013, 12:21:39 AM
Anyway here's what I would change with Cammy.

Buffs

Cannon Spike damage increased from 100 to 120. Still unsafe on block, still one of the worst dps as far as invul frames goes, 100 dmg is patheric, even Sagat got his buffed up a bit last patch.
C.mk startups faster by 1 frame, reduce recovery of far mk and far mp by 1 frame
Spin Knuckle slightly faster, so it's only 95% as shit as it is now.
Can divekick out of hooligan throw.
fix her bugged chain cancels
crouch fierce to hit all crouching characters
Close hk is jump cancel-able, nah just kidding lol. maybe make it cause knockdown since I think this is the only normal move that is unsafe on hit that can't be canceled in the game.
Her ass, way to flat. fix that shit.

Nerfs

Remove unblockables. (Might be impossible due to the system though, would throw in a few more nerfs if this wasn't possible)
Cannon Spike Anti Air dmg toned down from 160 to 140, basically trading 20 dmg to the grounded part of the move. Also keeps scrubs from thinking her dp is overpowered because they got hit at the peak of their jump like a moron.
Spiral Arrow more frame disadvantage after FADC on block
Spiral Arrow more unsafe on block (already -17 but hey why not more)
heavy spiral arrow 2nd hit reduced to 60 dmg so the move is 40+60 instead of 40+80
far stand hk toned down by 10 dmg
ex divekick dmg toned down by 20
+ a few stun nerfs
remove ultra 2 from the game, it's dat damn good.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on March 27, 2013, 12:39:24 AM
Can divekick out of hooligan throw.

worst idea ever, that alone would make up for the nerfs you listed

she already has uncrouchable setups with hooligan combination, if she could dive kick out of it, that would literally be a 50/50 setup
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 27, 2013, 08:34:19 AM
Yeah, $100. Sim VS you. I'm confident I'll take Somniac. Even if he's 10 times better than when he played me online, he'll still lose.

I don't know about you, but all Sagats are the same deal. Beatable with Sim.

Not sure about Toxy. He uses a broken character, so there's that. And I don't understand the Akuma match up yet anyway. I'm still deciding how best to react to air fireballs.

It's not a true 50/50, sure. But it may as well be. I can delay tech, but you can delay your DP. If it's -1 you can't instantly throw to beat delay tech the way Yun used to be able to after EX lunge. So that's OK.

First to 10 . Yeah it's Dhalsims match pretty simple match for sim. I like playing the matchup though. should be good fun.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rip The Jacker on March 27, 2013, 08:59:05 AM
Ha, someone in that table calls Sakura's air tatsu the "coward copter". I have nothing against the move, but that's a funny name.

Also, no nerfing Dudley please.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on March 27, 2013, 11:32:50 AM
Ha, someone in that table calls Sakura's air tatsu the "coward copter". I have nothing against the move, but that's a funny name.

;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on March 27, 2013, 11:35:40 PM
Ha, someone in that table calls Sakura's air tatsu the "coward copter". I have nothing against the move, but that's a funny name.

she runs like a little girl
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on March 28, 2013, 12:07:18 AM
Bort has amazing powers of observation.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on March 28, 2013, 03:28:58 AM
Bort has amazing powers of observation.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 28, 2013, 10:45:09 AM
Anyway here's what I would change with Cammy.

Buffs

Cannon Spike damage increased from 100 to 120. Still unsafe on block, still one of the worst dps as far as invul frames goes, 100 dmg is patheric, even Sagat got his buffed up a bit last patch.
C.mk startups faster by 1 frame, reduce recovery of far mk and far mp by 1 frame
Spin Knuckle slightly faster, so it's only 95% as shit as it is now.
Can divekick out of hooligan throw.
fix her bugged chain cancels
crouch fierce to hit all crouching characters
Close hk is jump cancel-able, nah just kidding lol. maybe make it cause knockdown since I think this is the only normal move that is unsafe on hit that can't be canceled in the game.
Her ass, way to flat. fix that shit.

Nerfs

Remove unblockables. (Might be impossible due to the system though, would throw in a few more nerfs if this wasn't possible)
Cannon Spike Anti Air dmg toned down from 160 to 140, basically trading 20 dmg to the grounded part of the move. Also keeps scrubs from thinking her dp is overpowered because they got hit at the peak of their jump like a moron.
Spiral Arrow more frame disadvantage after FADC on block
Spiral Arrow more unsafe on block (already -17 but hey why not more)
heavy spiral arrow 2nd hit reduced to 60 dmg so the move is 40+60 instead of 40+80
far stand hk toned down by 10 dmg
ex divekick dmg toned down by 20
+ a few stun nerfs
remove ultra 2 from the game, it's dat damn good.

Legit questions about these buffs.

1) Cannon spike is still an awesome dp due to Cammy's hurt box being tiny and characters like Sagat's being massive. That change seems unnecessary considering her power on a KD - she needs some weaknesses. It also has juggle property's and can be back canceled into Ultra or safety. It can also punish neutral or back jumps in the corner much easier since it's range and active frames are really good. It's a good dp.

2) Crouch fierce counter hit leads to Ultra I believe (correction welcome). That's still another frame trap in her arsenal that could lead to a KD that now basically hits everyone in the game from outside close distance. 

3) +1 on cr.mk means linking into above is much easier to land. Not sure about this change.

4) DK out of hooligan combo is something out of the akuma hand book. She'd also able to bait DP's at will.  Not even sure if these changes are legit or your having a laugh...  ;D

I don't think Cammy should receive too many nerfs in light of the lower (zoning) characters getting buffed but I don't think she needs many buffs either. She's not short on options.

Besides didn't Akuma lose a lot of options from the throw nerfs? Just nerf the throws?????  that just seems like it's too easy for some reason?  :o

The object of tweaks should be to bring characters into line. All I see happening with this new update (if they are dishing our nerfs)  is another 10 characters replacing the current 10 as best in game and 80% of players character switching.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on March 28, 2013, 02:47:05 PM
imo all cammy needs is to reduce hit and blockstun on ex cannon strike
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 28, 2013, 03:25:40 PM
imo all cammy needs is to reduce hit and blockstun on ex cannon strike

I'd still nerf the back throw though if that's the main problem with the set ups.

Also I think she hits too hard. Fei Long got a fair damage reduction last time and he's still great at the core. I'd think Cammy would be the same.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on March 28, 2013, 04:39:57 PM
give her what akuma got, afew more recovery frames on back throw.. he still has good setups on forward throw but not as good as it used to be

she will be the same, no more hit on one side land on the other bs but still fairly ambiguous.. maybe
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gigadeath22 on March 28, 2013, 05:03:35 PM
I'd like something to be done about Sakura's j.hk - as Ryu, it's nigh on impossible most of the time to properly hit her with a deep hp srk (trade or loses out completely). The match is terrifying most of the time anyway, with her able to whiff punish my low forward with her own into srk.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: ayyitsrobert on March 28, 2013, 08:15:03 PM
I'd like something to be done about Sakura's j.hk - as Ryu, it's nigh on impossible most of the time to properly hit her with a deep hp srk (trade or loses out completely). The match is terrifying most of the time anyway, with her able to whiff punish my low forward with her own into srk.

its possible. and i think you should be complaining about j.hp, lmao. and i'm guessing you're talking about AAing with SRK? you have to learn the distances that the jump in is unsafe, it is entirely possible to AA her, you just have to time it correctly. also, if you're talking about reversal DP, on your wakeup, on her jump in, then it won't work if the sakura timed the setup properly. but i agree, the match is in sakura's favour - quite heavily imo.

though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on March 28, 2013, 08:47:45 PM
I'd like something to be done about Sakura's j.hk - as Ryu, it's nigh on impossible most of the time to properly hit her with a deep hp srk (trade or loses out completely). The match is terrifying most of the time anyway, with her able to whiff punish my low forward with her own into srk.

its possible. and i think you should be complaining about j.hp, lmao. and i'm guessing you're talking about AAing with SRK? you have to learn the distances that the jump in is unsafe, it is entirely possible to AA her, you just have to time it correctly. also, if you're talking about reversal DP, on your wakeup, on her jump in, then it won't work if the sakura timed the setup properly. but i agree, the match is in sakura's favour - quite heavily imo.

though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.

Spoken like a true sakuracopter, you jump-in spammer.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gigadeath22 on March 28, 2013, 11:18:02 PM

Spoken like a true sakuracopter, you jump-in spammer.

GET ME THE NERFHAMMER
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: ayyitsrobert on March 28, 2013, 11:32:19 PM
you can't nerf a perfectly fine character. :)
max, be quiet, you button presser.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on March 28, 2013, 11:52:39 PM
though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.

I think the main issue people take is her ambiguous j.hp on knock-down. It's very difficult to gauge correctly, with a wrong guess opening you up to 25 - 30% damage. IV's hazy situations for some cross-ups on knock-down I feel could use some attention.

Some situations in this game are akin to approaching a turn-off street where you can't properly make out the sign and you only do so as you're driving past.

Which results in one saying the same thing.

"Well, shit."
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on March 29, 2013, 12:46:13 AM
though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.

I think the main issue people take is her ambiguous j.hp on knock-down. It's very difficult to gauge correctly, with a wrong guess opening you up to 25 - 30% damage. IV's hazy situations for some cross-ups on knock-down I feel could use some attention.

Some situations in this game are akin to approaching a turn-off street where you can't properly make out the sign and you only do so as you're driving past.

Which results in one saying the same thing.

"Well, shit."

Sakura is undoubtedly the queen of setups, with her lieutenant Ibuki and Miss Cammy in a close second. I'm not sure whether it's a part of a character's strength to have indistinguishable jump ins, all I know is that it's true that they all possess an insanely powerful steam train as a weapon. I believe Ibuki's oki game can be essentially be eyeballed with a pair of Daigo's eyes and consistently guarded against though. On the other hand, I don't think Sakura's setups can be gauged out and her jump in can essentially hit on the side of her choosing based on the normal she picks. Of course Camster also has this oki game with her body piercing dive kick.

To add insult to your dead body, Sakura has a plethora of unblockables across the board (some without corner) which truly make you feel helpless. I doubt a one frame block is realistic but there still are options I guess. I mean the unblockable is telegraphed, so you can be fairly certain you have the option to one frame block it, so that's nice.

I got a fair laugh out of the last line lol.

Now I've heard of the delayed quick rise as an option from Air a while ago, but against all the hard knockdowns? Well, shit indeed. Nerf unblockables, all we need is the delayed untechable knockdown quick rise. You heard me correctly, but I think they'll discover an unblockable on that option too.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 29, 2013, 03:40:21 AM
It wouldn't be so much of a problem if Dp's had a tad more invincibility but I'm unsure how that would effect the game as a whole.

Front hitting mix ups should always get Dp'd (if timed) IMO. It would also help winers always on about Sagat's trade Ultra because if you gave him a few more inv frames then I guess the trades would happen less often in theory.

You shouldn't be able to take a gamble on a front hitting mix up and not pay the price.



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 29, 2013, 08:00:42 AM
It wouldn't be so much of a problem if Dp's had a tad more invincibility but I'm unsure how that would effect the game as a whole.

Front hitting mix ups should always get Dp'd (if timed) IMO. It would also help winers always on about Sagat's trade Ultra because if you gave him a few more inv frames then I guess the trades would happen less often in theory.

You shouldn't be able to take a gamble on a front hitting mix up and not pay the price.

A good Sagat will just DP at the time where it trades anyway.

I have no problems blocking Sakura except in the corner.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: robsux on March 29, 2013, 10:31:41 AM
though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.

I think the main issue people take is her ambiguous j.hp on knock-down. It's very difficult to gauge correctly, with a wrong guess opening you up to 25 - 30% damage. IV's hazy situations for some cross-ups on knock-down I feel could use some attention.

Some situations in this game are akin to approaching a turn-off street where you can't properly make out the sign and you only do so as you're driving past.

Which results in one saying the same thing.

"Well, shit."
For me, when I see Sakura jump and I'm using Rose and do CrHP to beat it clean, and instead it trades, or I get beaten clean, I find a bit unfair.  I don't mind the setups, but ye Jumping in for free and not being able to punish that legitimately I think is something that can be considered to be fixed.  I know some other chars have that trait too, but Sakura's active "invincible jump HP" move seems to have the most activeness. 
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bored on March 29, 2013, 11:14:26 AM
why dont they fix sagat's and cammy's wake up timings to regular? i see no reason why they should be different

blanka's can stay different, but only because i feel that was part of his gimmicky design to begin with...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 29, 2013, 12:05:56 PM
It wouldn't be so much of a problem if Dp's had a tad more invincibility but I'm unsure how that would effect the game as a whole.

Front hitting mix ups should always get Dp'd (if timed) IMO. It would also help winers always on about Sagat's trade Ultra because if you gave him a few more inv frames then I guess the trades would happen less often in theory.

You shouldn't be able to take a gamble on a front hitting mix up and not pay the price.

A good Sagat will just DP at the time where it trades anyway.

I have no problems blocking Sakura except in the corner.

Actually I think that's a bit of a myth. Personally I just Dp, if it decides to trade or not is ultimately based on your actions.

It also depends the character. Characters with thicker hurt boxes tend to suffer more against these types of play. It's yet another layer of the game that is different character to character and not really taken into consideration when people are talking about nerfs and buffs.

I think the next wave of characters is out today for discussion.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: ayyitsrobert on March 29, 2013, 12:39:03 PM
though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.

I think the main issue people take is her ambiguous j.hp on knock-down. It's very difficult to gauge correctly, with a wrong guess opening you up to 25 - 30% damage. IV's hazy situations for some cross-ups on knock-down I feel could use some attention.

Some situations in this game are akin to approaching a turn-off street where you can't properly make out the sign and you only do so as you're driving past.

Which results in one saying the same thing.

"Well, shit."

Sakura is undoubtedly the queen of setups, with her lieutenant Ibuki and Miss Cammy in a close second. I'm not sure whether it's a part of a character's strength to have indistinguishable jump ins, all I know is that it's true that they all possess an insanely powerful steam train as a weapon. I believe Ibuki's oki game can be essentially be eyeballed with a pair of Daigo's eyes and consistently guarded against though. On the other hand, I don't think Sakura's setups can be gauged out and her jump in can essentially hit on the side of her choosing based on the normal she picks. Of course Camster also has this oki game with her body piercing dive kick.

To add insult to your dead body, Sakura has a plethora of unblockables across the board (some without corner) which truly make you feel helpless. I doubt a one frame block is realistic but there still are options I guess. I mean the unblockable is telegraphed, so you can be fairly certain you have the option to one frame block it, so that's nice.

I got a fair laugh out of the last line lol.

Now I've heard of the delayed quick rise as an option from Air a while ago, but against all the hard knockdowns? Well, shit indeed. Nerf unblockables, all we need is the delayed untechable knockdown quick rise. You heard me correctly, but I think they'll discover an unblockable on that option too.

removing unblockables. yeah. that should be done, sakura doesn't need that. and there's many ways to get out of her knockdowns without eating full, maximised damage. fadc dash out of some setups or jump ins, where it'd make your character flip over in mid air so she can't continue her combo to lead into another setup.

though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.

I think the main issue people take is her ambiguous j.hp on knock-down. It's very difficult to gauge correctly, with a wrong guess opening you up to 25 - 30% damage. IV's hazy situations for some cross-ups on knock-down I feel could use some attention.

Some situations in this game are akin to approaching a turn-off street where you can't properly make out the sign and you only do so as you're driving past.

Which results in one saying the same thing.

"Well, shit."
For me, when I see Sakura jump and I'm using Rose and do CrHP to beat it clean, and instead it trades, or I get beaten clean, I find a bit unfair.  I don't mind the setups, but ye Jumping in for free and not being able to punish that legitimately I think is something that can be considered to be fixed.  I know some other chars have that trait too, but Sakura's active "invincible jump HP" move seems to have the most activeness. 

yeah, they should adjust that 'invincible jump in'; though i would like it to still be there so sakura can still apply pressure on the cast, when she's jumping in to do her setups. perhaps make the timing very, very tight? i'm just afraid they'll change the hitbox on her j.hp and j.hk which will change or render most of her setups useless.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 30, 2013, 01:21:14 PM
Speaking of coward copters I'm thinking Seth's wall dive should be removed from the corner, he basically get's out for free then does the same thing on the other side. Total fraud tactics.



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on March 30, 2013, 01:56:35 PM
Speaking of coward copters I'm thinking Seth's wall dive should be removed from the corner, he basically get's out for free then does the same thing on the other side. Total fraud tactics.

Couldn't agree more. It's very possible to close him in still, but that jump arc and height... not to mention he completely bypasses the ability to zone him at full screen and has the option to bait with a dive afterwards. Oh and possible full screen crossups... ugh. Need to be really switched on when he has those options.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on March 30, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
Seth just needs to lose the full screen command grab. That thing is bullshit.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 30, 2013, 07:31:19 PM
How much chip does Vipers seismo do? Seems ridiculous. I'll add that to my list....  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 31, 2013, 07:47:49 AM
though i don't get why everyone's complaining about her jump ins now, they've hardly changed her over the course of the game since vanilla, i'd be content if she was just left alone or slightly adjusted like what they did in the past and besides, it's not like she's winning any majors.

I think the main issue people take is her ambiguous j.hp on knock-down. It's very difficult to gauge correctly, with a wrong guess opening you up to 25 - 30% damage. IV's hazy situations for some cross-ups on knock-down I feel could use some attention.

Some situations in this game are akin to approaching a turn-off street where you can't properly make out the sign and you only do so as you're driving past.

Which results in one saying the same thing.

"Well, shit."
For me, when I see Sakura jump and I'm using Rose and do CrHP to beat it clean, and instead it trades, or I get beaten clean, I find a bit unfair.  I don't mind the setups, but ye Jumping in for free and not being able to punish that legitimately I think is something that can be considered to be fixed.  I know some other chars have that trait too, but Sakura's active "invincible jump HP" move seems to have the most activeness.

Yeah sakuras jump hp is too good imo as well. Some characters are not even able to anti air her. That just encourages jumpin in like an idiot and disrespecting footsies totally. I agree rob.


As for being able to have a chance to uppercut all front mixups i disagree (what would be the point of safejumps then lol) . Just learn how to block honestly . Why do people hate blocking so much? LOL its an important part of fighting games in general. If you don't wanna learn how to block play 3s and go for your life with parry. Sf4 already has a huge window for wake up reversals ppl should be happy enough with that haha.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on March 31, 2013, 12:47:13 PM

As for being able to have a chance to uppercut all front mixups i disagree (what would be the point of safejumps then lol) . Just learn how to block honestly . Why do people hate blocking so much? LOL its an important part of fighting games in general. If you don't wanna learn how to block play 3s and go for your life with parry. Sf4 already has a huge window for wake up reversals ppl should be happy enough with that haha.

Think you mis-read my post mate. I'm not talking about changing frame data, safe jumps and set ups would still work. I'm talking about if the frame advantage allows me time to uppercut my uppercut shouldn't get stuffed cleanly. Like you say it just encourages jump ins.

That's the whole point, I have no problem blocking but If I feel I can spot an AA opportunity I should get rewarded just like if a mix up character can make me guess they should be rewarded.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on March 31, 2013, 02:22:23 PM

As for being able to have a chance to uppercut all front mixups i disagree (what would be the point of safejumps then lol) . Just learn how to block honestly . Why do people hate blocking so much? LOL its an important part of fighting games in general. If you don't wanna learn how to block play 3s and go for your life with parry. Sf4 already has a huge window for wake up reversals ppl should be happy enough with that haha.

Think you mis-read my post mate. I'm not talking about changing frame data, safe jumps and set ups would still work. I'm talking about if the frame advantage allows me time to uppercut my uppercut shouldn't get stuffed cleanly. Like you say it just encourages jump ins.

That's the whole point, I have no problem blocking but If I feel I can spot an AA opportunity I should get rewarded just like if a mix up character can make me guess they should be rewarded.

Ah yep
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on April 01, 2013, 02:32:13 PM
I've got inside information that Akuma will be getting a 50HP increase as they feel he's too flimsy.  To compensate for this, they're adding an extra frame to his sweep startup, so most tatsu sweep setups will be eliminated.  Looks like they're trying to change the way he's played

Thoughts?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 01, 2013, 03:59:23 PM
I've got inside information that Akuma will be getting a 50HP increase as they feel he's too flimsy.  To compensate for this, they're adding an extra frame to his sweep startup, so most tatsu sweep setups will be eliminated.  Looks like they're trying to change the way he's played

Thoughts?

Stamp of approval.

Seriously doubt that'll happen though. Sounds like an April fool. Akuma players would hang themselves.....then pick Cammy.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 01, 2013, 04:01:12 PM
Remove his fucking air fireball.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on April 01, 2013, 05:01:08 PM
I've got inside information that Akuma will be getting a 50HP increase as they feel he's too flimsy.  To compensate for this, they're adding an extra frame to his sweep startup, so most tatsu sweep setups will be eliminated.  Looks like they're trying to change the way he's played

Thoughts?

Where did you hear this from? That's a good change.

They also need to change his bs demon flip palm whiff os setups. More recovery on demon flip palm whiff.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: pUAKa676 on April 02, 2013, 11:40:49 AM
guiles hurricane back will be good  ;D ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on April 03, 2013, 07:39:24 PM
Week 2 (3/29-4/4) ~ What would you change?
T. Hawk & Zangief- further grab range?
Dhalsim - No idea
Chun-Li - make the EX SBK a better AA
Blanka - No idea
Gouken - a proper shoryuken?
Dan - more taunts!
Rufus - No idea
Cody - a better knife?
Vega - have the claw stay on!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: STOZ1105 on April 03, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
I hope they don't listen to people who's like "oh! give my char a buff! and nerf the rest!" I read many comments on the official blog last time when they were making ver2012... srsly wtf I hope we can all think to make the game fairer as such... And call me a noob, where do we send these ideas anyway?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on April 03, 2013, 08:40:16 PM
http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/forum/view/7411/241285/sf-character-balance-suggestions

Not your turn yet, but get your Makoto/Bison buff list ready!

I'm sure everyone that plays SFIV has nerf list ready for the top boyos. Even Cammy mains are asking for nerf just to look like they're playing fair. I kid. Sorta. Naw it's ok.

As for Week 2 characters, I only have some opinions on Gouken, mainly buff his ex.tatsu hitbox. Can't make any other judgement of him because I only mained him for a month. Going through the forum, people are suggesting his cr.mp to combo into hadoken. Those lads are crazy.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on April 03, 2013, 09:32:27 PM
For Gouken I wouldn't mind a more reliable Tatsu FADC Ultra combo. I find I cross under and get DP (in this case counter) instead. I don't main Gouken or anything though. Might be doing something wrong here.

Makotos are after stupid things (aside from health and much better cross up). They are asking for Hayates to be safe, either armour or full invincibility on EX Hayate, armour breaking Tsurugis and other shit. Meanwhile others are saying EX Karakusa shouldn't have armour because no other character has armour on their command throws, it's true, instead they get one better, full invincibility against strikes. :| And if they use the excuse "they can't combo into Ultra", Gouken has a God damn normal throw that goes into Ultra.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 03, 2013, 09:59:10 PM
They are asking for Hayates to be safe

EX should be -2 or -1.

When it comes to Yun I'll be saying this:

Make EX lunge +1 on block.

Give palm more active and less recovery frames and more stun and damage.

Lower height restriction on dive kick.

Genei Jin lasts longer.

Up the damage on all TCs and cr.Mp. And t+MK in Genei Jin. Up general GJ damage.

Command grab 5 frame start up, EX 4. EX is throw invulnerability.

DPs have less recovery.

Shoulders do more damage and have longer fireball invulnerability.

Easily the most sensible suggestions they'll get.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 03, 2013, 10:32:46 PM
Yeah sensible if you've just escaped the nut house.

5 frame startup command grab? Be better off giving him an SPD.

I think you've actually just made him better than original AE with a serious face on.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 03, 2013, 10:44:18 PM
No way. Right now Yun is rubbish tier. All that would make him viable.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 03, 2013, 10:54:26 PM
No way. Right now Yun is rubbish tier. All that would make him viable.

Course he's viable. He's not the ABC he once was.

Yang is someone who you could realistically say is not viable.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 03, 2013, 11:11:04 PM
Yun was born in Hong Kong, not Australia or America. In any case, his place of birth has of course not changed.

Yang needs the following changes:

Cross up j.MK has a bigger inverse hitbox.

st.LK faster, does more damage.

All TCs do more damage and have less recovery.

st.MP has a more protruded hitbox.

Dive kick has more active frames and less recovery.

Full FB invulnerability on all DPs.

Seiei Enbu lasts longer and does more damage.

Command grab has 4 frames, EX has throw invulnerability.

More damage and less recovery on palms.

Ultras do more damage and are fully invincible.


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 03, 2013, 11:13:40 PM
Soj, did you take Friday's tablets on a Wednesday again?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 03, 2013, 11:18:49 PM
What?

My suggestions would make for a "fair and balanced" game.

Especially's Yang's additional active frames on his dive kick. So he'll basically still be hitting you for 1 or 2 frames after landing, with 0 recovery.

Also, nerf Ryu.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 03, 2013, 11:21:42 PM
 ;D

We are trying to put the finishing touches on the master bedroom and you are knocking down the garage and putting a swimming pool in....
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 03, 2013, 11:26:12 PM
Meh, who cares about Gouken and Makoto. As Godly Affect mentioned, not even Makoto players know what Makoto players want, and who even plays Gouken? Fuck that overblown reference to a mistranslation from the 90s.

As for my changes for Yun, that would actually make him AE Yun with a better command grab.

I'd already listed my actual suggestions for Yun's changes somewhere around here... They were very wise, IMO.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on April 03, 2013, 11:28:49 PM
soji just wants more Bp, yun is fine the way he is!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 03, 2013, 11:31:32 PM
soji just wants more Bp, yun is fine the way he is!

Yeah he basically is. That's why my actual suggestions contained a negative change of roughly equal measure for every positive.

He could be improved as a character to fit better in the players' hands but he doesn't need to be any better compared to the rest of the cast than he already is.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on April 03, 2013, 11:33:48 PM
Meh, who cares about Gouken and Makoto. As Godly Affect mentioned, not even Makoto players know what Makoto players want, and who even plays Gouken? Fuck that overblown reference to a mistranslation from the 90s.

As for my changes for Yun, that would actually make him AE Yun with a better command grab.

I'd already listed my actual suggestions for Yun's changes somewhere around here... They were very wise, IMO.
Correction, we Makoto players know what we want. The morons on Capcom-unity that say they play Makoto, don't.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: STOZ1105 on April 04, 2013, 10:35:34 PM

Meh, who cares about Gouken and Makoto. As Godly Affect mentioned, not even Makoto players know what Makoto players want, and who even plays Gouken? Fuck that overblown reference to a mistranslation from the 90s.

As for my changes for Yun, that would actually make him AE Yun with a better command grab.

I'd already listed my actual suggestions for Yun's changes somewhere around here... They were very wise, IMO.
Correction, we Makoto players know what we want. The morons on Capcom-unity that say they play Makoto, don't.

Please don't make me start on what makoto want... But I guess its hard to think what exactly I want without asking too much and wrecking the balance thats the whole point of having it rebalanced. I can smell already greedy bastards wanting so much for their chars only. Maybe a touch of better defense props like throw inv instead of strike inv on ex chop or hayates a little (not too much) safer, shorter recovery on moves like forward st.lk etc...

Anyone have any idea which chars capcoms asking for next week?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 04, 2013, 11:11:26 PM
1 of Makoto's moves should be throw inv. I suppose there is the axe kick though...

She is the hardest character to balance, IMO. She suffers from being a product of the SF3 system more than the other 3s characters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on April 05, 2013, 12:19:38 AM
    Week 1 (3/22-3/28) - Balrog, M. Bison, E. Honda, Ken, Sagat, Sakura, Makoto, Dudley, Guile, Ryu
    Week 2 (3/29-4/4) - T. Hawk, Zangief, Dhalsim, Chun-Li, Blanka, Gouken, Dan, Rufus, Cody, Vega
    Week 3 (4/5-4/11) - Juri, Evil Ryu, Yun, Yang, Abel, Dee Jay, Hakan, Rose, Guy, Gen
    Week 4 (4/12-4/18) - Cammy, Seth, Akuma, C. Viper, Adon, Ibuki, El Fuerte, Fei Long, Oni
    Week 5 (4/19-4/25) - System and additional character changes
    Additional time (4/26-4/30) - Additional changes

Oops, they've already done Makoto and Bison.

Shit I could've sworn I saw a different list. GGs lol. If it makes you feel better, I bet every possible suggestion has been made. Some of them make for good reading.

Edit: Woo, time to get vocal on Evil, Yang and Rose. I just want hitbox changes on a few normals across the board pretty much and Evil to get Akuma sweep and his teleport. Rose faster U1, not even necessary but nice nonetheless and true reversal on EX SS (too good against projectile guys though). Yang, holy shit, fix his dive kick, better command grab, steal Yun's one and AE 3f st.lk and bring back his damn crossup as well. That's it. Not too greedy I hope.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on April 05, 2013, 12:32:36 AM
i want fight request from all modes! including challenge and versus
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: robsux on April 05, 2013, 09:31:28 AM
Gief should definitely have an air throw!  I agree with that guy, also they should give him a fireball, and demon flip, and 3 frame normals.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 05, 2013, 10:56:21 AM
Quote
Evil to get Akuma sweep and his teleport.

Not that I'd think that would break him but if they do nerf Akuma's sweep that might effect what E.Ryu might get.

If you buffed up E.Ryu's sweep and teleport and dished out a couple of nerfs to Akuma there would be a sort of fudged zone on which character was better.

E.ryu already has better health and damage than akuma among other things (cr.mk, Ultra from Dp's and AA etc etc)

Akuma is the big one. Everyone knows Cammy is going to take some shit but Akuma's has pretty much escaped every version so far and always stayed ahead of the pack.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on April 05, 2013, 06:09:54 PM
Gief should definitely have an air throw!  I agree with that guy, also they should give him a fireball, and demon flip, and 3 frame normals.

faster sweep/dash too, he's too slow, how am i supposed to attack! :Kappa:

also change his hitbox to blankas (but keep the models the same)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 05, 2013, 06:12:21 PM
Give Sim a Yoga Uppercut that can be FADCed into catastrophe.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on April 06, 2013, 09:23:03 PM
Juri, Evil Ryu, Yun, Yang, Abel, Dee Jay, Hakan, Rose, Guy, Gen

Buff them all with Hakan oil. Haha.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 06, 2013, 09:43:39 PM
What do you think of the suggestion for Yun to either reduce the recovery frames of his dive kick or reduce the height restriction?

I think 1 of those 2 (either one I guess) would be OK, because his command grab is very slow now. They could possibly add grey damage to the command grab to compensate for the buff.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on April 07, 2013, 12:24:09 AM
soji yun is fine, hes top tier but hes no cammy or seth
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on April 07, 2013, 01:44:40 AM
I wouldn't mind grey damage to Yun's command grab, but I think he's in a good place too. I was thinking his dive kick is actually really good, a bit too good considering what he can do up close. Admittedly I'm still a novice at defending against Yun, he really does have a ton of options up close, all of which lead to nice damage/stun. Yun also has deceptive range on that command grab which makes it even harder. He becomes really hard to defend against in corner, probably one of the worst imo.

I wouldn't change his command grab and I'd rather see his dive kick be ever so slightly weaker. They say Yang's one has more stun on it, but I call it bs, I honestly can't make it do anything remotely interesting in comparison to Yun's. I was thinking a higher restriction on the ascending part of the dive kick in comparison to the descending part, but it seems like it won't do much anyway considering dives are most effective on the rising half anyway and it'd just be a plain nerf in the first place.

Yun's fine however I look at it, strong, yes and in the right hands absolutely nuts.

Imagine Seth losing FADC on his dp. That would be hilarious.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on April 07, 2013, 01:50:40 AM
thats what seth needs to balance him, no fadc on blocked srk, imo i think thats the fairest and only way to nerf him

also i think yangs divekick does cause more hitstun but he just recovers so much slower
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on April 07, 2013, 01:51:56 AM
BECAUSE! the guy has mixups after blocked dp fadc for christs sake
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 07, 2013, 02:15:45 AM
Yang's dive kick has less recovery. Not sure about hit or block stun.

Yun is fine, you are both right. It'd be nice to not have to space dive kicks perfectly every time. Whiff = punish. Hit slightly too high = punish. Same situation with his lunges. But it's not necessary, which is why I think if they did do that to make him easier to play, they'd have to give him a big nerf, and grey damage on command grab sounds about right to me.

And Max you are one of the players that doesn't punish unsafe dive kicks unless I'm mistaken, that might be why you have trouble defending it. If it hits you from the waist up you can at least throw. I think I remember hitting you on the head some times and still not getting punished (a raw ultra would probably work there). It's also vulnerable to focuses, and if your backdash is good (LOL Rose) you can backdash and whiff punish easily.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 07, 2013, 09:09:15 AM
I couldn't give a shit if Seth got nerfed.  He's got a retarded run away and mix up game. Wall bounce - arms - booms - arms - Wall bounce - rinse repeat until I can hit a jammy Dp or jump in for a KD.

He's everything wrong with the game wrapped up in a neat little package.

"Oh but he has to take gambles" = Empty jump dp? Jab jab dp? Wake up dp? Mash dp Dp's with cherry's on top.....

Crap character.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Kechu on April 08, 2013, 09:24:42 PM
I couldn't give a shit if Seth got nerfed.  He's got a retarded run away and mix up game. Wall bounce - arms - booms - arms - Wall bounce - rinse repeat until I can hit a jammy Dp or jump in for a KD.

He's everything wrong with the game wrapped up in a neat little package.

"Oh but he has to take gambles" = Empty jump dp? Jab jab dp? Wake up dp? Mash dp Dp's with cherry's on top.....

Crap character.
I'd like to see his jump speed nerfed cos that's where most his mix-ups come from. Give him Guy's jump speed; high and far but slow. His teleport needs more recovery so it's not abusable
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GirlsDigMyScore on April 09, 2013, 03:25:48 PM
Quote
Evil to get Akuma sweep and his teleport.

Not that I'd think that would break him but if they do nerf Akuma's sweep that might effect what E.Ryu might get.

If you buffed up E.Ryu's sweep and teleport and dished out a couple of nerfs to Akuma there would be a sort of fudged zone on which character was better.

E.ryu already has better health and damage than akuma among other things (cr.mk, Ultra from Dp's and AA etc etc)

Akuma is the big one. Everyone knows Cammy is going to take some shit but Akuma's has pretty much escaped every version so far and always stayed ahead of the pack.

Didn't Akuma lose his demon flip / palm from being an overhead to being crap?

I know some Akuma players that straight up quit the game after that.

Seth mashing DP doesn't get very far does it? I mean if one goes punished there goes 50% of his health. If he's got 2 meters well his DP is just as good as anyones. Even Cody can go for some shit after his slide upkick thing is blocked and  FADC'ed.

Anyway nerf Feilong's focus attack and see if Sailor ever wins a game again.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on April 09, 2013, 03:33:02 PM
Quote
Evil to get Akuma sweep and his teleport.

Not that I'd think that would break him but if they do nerf Akuma's sweep that might effect what E.Ryu might get.

If you buffed up E.Ryu's sweep and teleport and dished out a couple of nerfs to Akuma there would be a sort of fudged zone on which character was better.

E.ryu already has better health and damage than akuma among other things (cr.mk, Ultra from Dp's and AA etc etc)

Akuma is the big one. Everyone knows Cammy is going to take some shit but Akuma's has pretty much escaped every version so far and always stayed ahead of the pack.

Even Cody can go for some shit after his slide upkick thing is blocked and  FADC'ed.


except that it has no invincibility and it whiffs on crouching and starts up in like 7 frames
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GirlsDigMyScore on April 09, 2013, 03:35:02 PM
Replace Cody with Dan, Cammy, Ken, Sagat or whoever you like
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 10, 2013, 08:10:09 AM
Quote from: GirlsDigMyScore link=topic=7673.msg1283261#msg1283261

Anyway nerf Feilong's focus attack and see if Sailor ever wins a game again.

Because using the best focus attack in the game is not a legit tactic against button pushers  ;D

It's like anything else, if you don't punish it, it just keeps getting done!  ;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 21, 2013, 11:58:35 AM
Results of the Capcom threads are interesting. My view - 
 
Akuma - The thread has almost six time's the standard with bad players wanting extreme nerfs to Akuma and Akuma players pretending that low health is balance and he is a "risky" character. 
 
Verdict - Nerfs across the board. Possible health buff. 
 
Cammy -  Players seem to be delusional in that she needs better footsie's somehow. Probably in fear of their ABC pressure getting toned down.   
 
Verdict - Nerfs no buffs 
 
Seth - everyone seems to agree he is got some ridiculous options and some bad ones. Trying to fix him will be like trying to pull a pair of earphones out of you're pocket and thinking they won't get tangled even worse. 
 
Verdict -  No changes - Hard to balance a character based on guessing. Will probably will take one piece of BS away and replace it with another.
 
Fei Long - Surprisingly most (sane) people agree with the Fei players. He needs some very minor tweaks but is possibly the most balanced character in the game (yes I'm biased because I play Fei). The post count on Fei tells me people are not overly concerned with him. Possibly the only thread with players not really asking for anything of note. 
 
Verdict - Minor nerfs

Sagat -  Bit of a mixed bag, people clearly don't like playing against a good Sagat but the general feeling is that he definitely needs a few things and is a popular character.

Verdict - Minor buffs.
 
Gouken - Probably has the most sensible talk out of all the threads I've been in. Clearly needs something else and everyone is agreed on that 
 
Verdict - Minor buffs.  
 
Evil Ryu - Strangely busy. I'm thinking most Akuma players (see above) are already eye balling E.Ryu as a replacement. 
 
Verdict - Minor buffs and possible candidate for next broken character.   
 

Overall verdict - PR stunt and Capcom are fucking with us. They will change it themselves and charge us 15 bucks.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on April 21, 2013, 12:57:02 PM
I hope they don't go overboard with nerfs. IMO they should only nerf what is broken or obviously needs consideration and focus on bringing weaker characters up a tier. Fei Long should stay exactly the same, he's not OP, he's just solid at what he does and his whole game is fundamentals. Weaker characters need to be buffed. Healthbars on girls other than Cammy and maaybe viper need to come up and unblockables need to die.

If they add training mode fight request i'll be a happy mofo.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on April 21, 2013, 12:58:18 PM
I don't mind if they buff the shit out of Rose though..

..actually i think with some SMART minor buffs in the right places and removing stupid shit that creates execution errors, Rose could be as solid as Fei Long
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on April 26, 2013, 08:49:37 PM
I don't mind if they buff the shit out of Rose though..

Too hard. Just make a Evil Rose and call her Thorn.  :)
She's be more popular as Evil Ryu and Oni combined!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Alexk on April 26, 2013, 10:57:31 PM
Too hard. Just make a Evil Rose and call her Thorn.  :)
She's be more popular as Evil Ryu and Oni combined!

That sounds kinda bad arse actually.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: furyblitz on April 27, 2013, 04:18:27 AM
Yang needs his standing lk back to 3f  (or at least 4 to punish fei rekkas) and +10dmg to his final slash. Don't really care about the rest.. otherwise give him a 50 or 100 more hit points

He struggles aganist honda (cant punish headbutts without reacting to meter) and a few other grapplers.. would like to see what capcom would do for Yang..

-------------

For Fei, I agree that he's one of the most solid (not balanced) character right now.
His corner cw crossups on certain characters are nasty accross 1/4 of the cast..

My suggestion: Nerf those cw and his unblockables, and buff the mid-low tier characters and he would be a perfect character
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on April 27, 2013, 05:58:26 PM
Too hard. Just make a Evil Rose and call her Thorn.  :)
She's be more popular as Evil Ryu and Oni combined!

That sounds kinda bad arse actually.

Seconded!!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on April 27, 2013, 08:26:48 PM
Technically, Rose' counterpart would be M.Bison.

But if you get Evil Rose/Thorn then I should get Friendly Bison.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on April 28, 2013, 05:06:36 AM
Only characters that deserves buffs are the ones that seems fit.
Why are ppl asking for buffs when their character is already viable?
Rose, jury, guy, dan, Hakan,makoto needs tweaking.

Guile shouldn't get a repeat of super because ppl will complain then the cycle repeats.
Sanford must be smoking crack Sagat is already viable, he doesn't need tweaking same as ken.

I play Dudley and Seth is a bitch to play against but the nerfs I see ppl wanting for Seth are donkey arse. Seth is fine.

Bison is a strong character but he got nerfed jst because he was bipson pressure
Then the twin got the nerf bat. Makoto got nerfed for being pressure heavy.

I think all these demands are coming from the zoners.


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 29, 2013, 11:13:09 AM
Actually sanford didn't ask for hardly anything.  ???

People want the zoners buffed because that was Street Fighters strength. Now you can jump around like a loony over 15 fireballs - still not die - then kill someone cause they missed a tech....

That's the main reason the game is so scrubby. Mistakes...pffft....I'll try again....and again...then mash an Ultra....
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 29, 2013, 12:56:46 PM
Actually sanford didn't ask for hardly anything.  ???

People want the zoners buffed because that was Street Fighters strength. Now you can jump around like a loony over 15 fireballs - still not die - then kill someone cause they missed a tech....

That's the main reason the game is so scrubby. Mistakes...pffft....I'll try again....and again...then mash an Ultra....

Spoken like a true turtle.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 29, 2013, 01:51:23 PM
Actually sanford didn't ask for hardly anything.  ???

People want the zoners buffed because that was Street Fighters strength. Now you can jump around like a loony over 15 fireballs - still not die - then kill someone cause they missed a tech....

That's the main reason the game is so scrubby. Mistakes...pffft....I'll try again....and again...then mash an Ultra....

Spoken like a true turtle.

Well I play Fei Long, and a fairly aggressive one at that. My Sagat is played like Sagat should be. I'd say that my defence is actually my weak area, like most players.

It makes no sense that bullshit characters like Akuma, Seth and Cammy can just flow chart out what ever they want numerous times even with the fact they have low health. There is no risk in jumping in this game despite the fact that you're taught from day one as a player - DO NOT JUMP. On top of that each character also has a way around a zoners own pressure - Akuma has a teleport and uber fast walk speed (spam fwd hk), Seth has a teleport and a wall dive, Cammy has uber fast walk speed and 3 frame normals coming out her ass. Throw in a few EX moves and Ultra's on top of that, you'd think that this game was just purely designed to destroy zoning, which it is really. All of the top characters in the game are characters that destroy zoning - Akuma, Seth, Cammy, Fei, Adon, Viper etc etc.

Zoners also never have a good come back ability OR damaging whiff punishers. Sagat for example wouldn't even do 300 for a full punish. Where as characters with an already abundant amount of tools and way's round zoning do more damage. It just doesn't make sense, on any level.

Even lower tier characters like Juri and Guy actually have more chance of winning a tournament than Sagat or Guile since they have a really good pressure game and frame traps coupled with unpredictability.

Right now there is zero reason to play a zoning character if you want to do well. With big money on the table at events I still get puzzled as to why you would enter with a weak character. Seriously, if it was me and I was spending 3 thousand bucks on going to evo, I'd just learn Cammy or Akuma and give myself a shot at the money or at least a character which works on 50/50 situations.


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on April 29, 2013, 06:32:36 PM
Actually sanford didn't ask for hardly anything.  ???

People want the zoners buffed because that was Street Fighters strength. Now you can jump around like a loony over 15 fireballs - still not die - then kill someone cause they missed a tech....

That's the main reason the game is so scrubby. Mistakes...pffft....I'll try again....and again...then mash an Ultra....

Spoken like a true turtle.

Well I play Fei Long, and a fairly aggressive one at that. My Sagat is played like Sagat should be. I'd say that my defence is actually my weak area, like most players.

It makes no sense that bullshit characters like Akuma, Seth and Cammy can just flow chart out what ever they want numerous times even with the fact they have low health. There is no risk in jumping in this game despite the fact that you're taught from day one as a player - DO NOT JUMP. On top of that each character also has a way around a zoners own pressure - Akuma has a teleport and uber fast walk speed (spam fwd hk), Seth has a teleport and a wall dive, Cammy has uber fast walk speed and 3 frame normals coming out her ass. Throw in a few EX moves and Ultra's on top of that, you'd think that this game was just purely designed to destroy zoning, which it is really. All of the top characters in the game are characters that destroy zoning - Akuma, Seth, Cammy, Fei, Adon, Viper etc etc.

Zoners also never have a good come back ability OR damaging whiff punishers. Sagat for example wouldn't even do 300 for a full punish. Where as characters with an already abundant amount of tools and way's round zoning do more damage. It just doesn't make sense, on any level.

Even lower tier characters like Juri and Guy actually have more chance of winning a tournament than Sagat or Guile since they have a really good pressure game and frame traps coupled with unpredictability.

Right now there is zero reason to play a zoning character if you want to do well. With big money on the table at events I still get puzzled as to why you would enter with a weak character. Seriously, if it was me and I was spending 3 thousand bucks on going to evo, I'd just learn Cammy or Akuma and give myself a shot at the money or at least a character which works on 50/50 situations.

Well said.

I always believed the ridiculously high level zoners did really well though, I think it's just that it's a lot easier to be competitive with those mentioned characters and to reach the potential of the zoning characters you really had to be exceptional and play a really solid game. Having said that, lots of those anti-zoning characters are rather unfair, potentially applying very hard guard situations from relatively low risk scenarios and then continuing it until you pass away.

I just think if you decide to pursue the zoning characters, expect to win through purely outplaying your opponent and having a very methodical game.

I would much rather watch Ryu/Sagat/Guile/Balrog MUs over Cammy/Akuma/Seth/Viper/Fei/Adon ones. Sure it's nice watching someone get blown up sometimes, but it's much more satisfying to see the neutral game as opposed to the vortex. I mean both players have spent a god awful amount of time to get to where they're at and one mistake is so hard to recover from against some characters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 29, 2013, 11:29:25 PM

I would much rather watch Ryu/Sagat/Guile/Balrog MUs over Cammy/Akuma/Seth/Viper/Fei/Adon ones. Sure it's nice watching someone get blown up sometimes, but it's much more satisfying to see the neutral game as opposed to the vortex. I mean both players have spent a god awful amount of time to get to where they're at and one mistake is so hard to recover from against some characters.

Very true , it's heartbreaking almost to completely outplay some one for them then to turn the tide so easily. Especially since these characters also all have particularly good throw games (again - why?).

I actually not only enjoy watching the Ryu/Sagat/Guile/Balrog matches but I prefer playing in them too. There's a certain honesty going on against these types when I get beat I can safely admit it's because you just 100% outplayed me.

Anyway's I'm all for keeping the big guns strong, just buff up the zoners to their level.


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on April 30, 2013, 12:58:14 PM
Actually sanford didn't ask for hardly anything.  ???

People want the zoners buffed because that was Street Fighters strength. Now you can jump around like a loony over 15 fireballs - still not die - then kill someone cause they missed a tech....

That's the main reason the game is so scrubby. Mistakes...pffft....I'll try again....and again...then mash an Ultra....


Zoning characters have all the tools they need, if you didn't keep them out you jst have to keep practising.
If you say you play sagat how he is supposed to be played,  that other person is playing cammy how she is supposed to be played
What your saying is taking something away from this xxxx character to benefit your zoning?

That's the reason why sf is diverse and not always about solid play, some characters have to jump to get in and work harder and risk abit of health to get in.

 It's funny how ppl want buffs when they are the problem not the character.

capcom shouldn't touch the already viable characters only buff the lower tiers up.
Only thing I want is for capcom to make everyone useable not jst for console but at high level play.

C'mon look at dan, do they hate Korea?

 

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 30, 2013, 01:19:48 PM
C'mon look at dan, do they hate Korea?

What's the connection between Dan and Korea?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 30, 2013, 01:46:01 PM


Zoning characters have all the tools they need, if you didn't keep them out you jst have to keep practising.
If you say you play sagat how he is supposed to be played,  that other person is playing cammy how she is supposed to be played
What your saying is taking something away from this xxxx character to benefit your zoning?



Well for starters Cammy's a much better character than Sagat - that's the point. It's not even close. Also that's not what I'm saying, keep Cammy strong if you like but make Guile, Sagat, Rog strong also. Just make everyone stronger.

If you get knocked down by Cammy or Seth or Akuma, sure you should pay the price. But if you jump on Sagat you should pay also, the balance of risk reward is not equal. Right now you get 5 or 6 attempts at getting in and a zoner perhaps get's 2 chances on a KD if he's lucky. So the zoners either need better tools to avoid these scenario's or better damage to equal out the risk reward.

When was the last time you saw a Ryu v Dhalsim or a Sagat v Boxer at the end of a tourney? I can't even remember.

Quote
It's funny how ppl want buffs when they are the problem not the character.

You would have a point if any of these characters were consistently placed high in tournaments. If Capcom ask what the community wants for the game, it's only natural for people with perceived "weaker" characters to want more. That's the point of the patch - balance.

For me it ultimately makes no difference, I'm not a tournament player. That doesn't mean I can analyse and see whats wrong with the game from my point of view or what I think would make it better. I know I'm shit but I can still see that Cammy is very strong and Sagat is weak.

I'm probably a little biased though. I've never appreciated or respected vortex as a style, certainly not the way Akuma/Cammy/Seth/Viper/ELF work. A character like Yang on the other hand I could totally buy into. I've even started to learn him as a side.


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 30, 2013, 04:17:34 PM


Zoning characters have all the tools they need, if you didn't keep them out you jst have to keep practising.
If you say you play sagat how he is supposed to be played,  that other person is playing cammy how she is supposed to be played
What your saying is taking something away from this xxxx character to benefit your zoning?



Well for starters Cammy's a much better character than Sagat - that's the point. It's not even close. Also that's not what I'm saying, keep Cammy strong if you like but make Guile, Sagat, Rog strong also. Just make everyone stronger.

If you get knocked down by Cammy or Seth or Akuma, sure you should pay the price. But if you jump on Sagat you should pay also, the balance of risk reward is not equal. Right now you get 5 or 6 attempts at getting in and a zoner perhaps get's 2 chances on a KD if he's lucky. So the zoners either need better tools to avoid these scenario's or better damage to equal out the risk reward.

When was the last time you saw a Ryu v Dhalsim or a Sagat v Boxer at the end of a tourney? I can't even remember.

Quote
It's funny how ppl want buffs when they are the problem not the character.

You would have a point if any of these characters were consistently placed high in tournaments. If Capcom ask what the community wants for the game, it's only natural for people with perceived "weaker" characters to want more. That's the point of the patch - balance.

For me it ultimately makes no difference, I'm not a tournament player. That doesn't mean I can analyse and see whats wrong with the game from my point of view or what I think would make it better. I know I'm shit but I can still see that Cammy is very strong and Sagat is weak.

I'm probably a little biased though. I've never appreciated or respected vortex as a style, certainly not the way Akuma/Cammy/Seth/Viper/ELF work. A character like Yang on the other hand I could totally buy into. I've even started to learn him as a side.

Try playing Makoto (rush down/vortex character) VS Guile (zoning/keep away character) and then tell me "zoners" need to be buffed.

You're talking about weaknesses that pertain to individual characters. If anything, this game in general too heavily favours turtling.

As well as Cammys and Vipers, we see Sims, Guiles, Ryus etc. in top 8s.

Last EVO had a Guile a Rog and a Ryu in the top 8.

An Akuma won, but he is different. He has strong tools at all ranges and is just an overly powerful character in general.

Basically your argument is BS. This game doesn't need to be changed to give keep away characters more strengths at all.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 30, 2013, 08:13:22 PM
Looking at the EVO 2012 results there are 7 out of the top 32 or about 20% who play zoning/turtle style.

If you're going off the latest Norcal it would be 8 out of 32 with some zoners only making the cut because they were played as a secondary back up.

If you think zoning and turtling in this game is strong Soj, I can only come to the conclusion that you don't watch any matches. Also you're not taking unblockables into account.
 
Like or not in this game it's much stronger to have -

A) A strong vortex/ set up orientated play (Xian tearing it up with Gen backs this up)

B) A solid ground game with insanely safe pressure and frame traps (Fei/Adon/Cammy)

Remember I'm not taking about you in me in scrub land, I'm talking about at high level. You would realistically enter EVO 2013 with Dhalsim and not Yun?

I think the games pretty good as it is but Capcom have asked what players want and I think that the overwhelming response on the website (and in general) is that some of the mix up characters are still a little too strong. Not much, but enough to give them an edge. I think it's fair that the lower characters receive some slight buffs to keep it interesting.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 30, 2013, 03:36:34 PM
Looking at the EVO 2012 results there are 7 out of the top 32 or about 20% who play zoning/turtle style.

If you're going off the latest Norcal it would be 8 out of 32 with some zoners only making the cut because they were played as a secondary back up.

If you think zoning and turtling in this game is strong Soj, I can only come to the conclusion that you don't watch any matches. Also you're not taking unblockables into account.
 
Like or not in this game it's much stronger to have -

A) A strong vortex/ set up orientated play (Xian tearing it up with Gen backs this up)

B) A solid ground game with insanely safe pressure and frame traps (Fei/Adon/Cammy)

Remember I'm not taking about you in me in scrub land, I'm talking about at high level. You would realistically enter EVO 2013 with Dhalsim and not Yun?

I think the games pretty good as it is but Capcom have asked what players want and I think that the overwhelming response on the website (and in general) is that some of the mix up characters are still a little too strong. Not much, but enough to give them an edge. I think it's fair that the lower characters receive some slight buffs to keep it interesting.

Again, you're inducing conclusions about the game in general based on a couple of individual match up details, and I don't think you're basing anything on "high level play."

A Comparison of some characters who excel at mid-long range to some who excel at close range.

Makoto V Guile is bad for Makoto.

Yun V Guile is bad for Yun.

Sagat V Yun is bad for Yun.

Sagat V Rufus is bad for Rufus.

Sagat V Gief is bad for Gief.

Sim V Ken is bad for Ken.

Sim V Sagat is bad for Sagat (both are zoners usually, but not in that match up where Sagat has to become a close-up brawler).

Bison is bad for all of the close-quarters characters except (IMO) Yun.

Hawk loses to everyone.

etc.

I'm sure you can compile your own list of match ups which are bad for characters who rely on opening space instead of closing it, the point is there is nothing about the game overall which makes rush down characters too strong and turtles too weak.

As for whether I'd choose Sim or Yun in a tournament, I would choose Yun because he's my main. However, there would be a strong temptation to switch to Sim in quite a few matchups, because in many respects (IMO too many) turtley characters are better than rush down ones.

I think you forget how easy defence is in this game. Blocking takes very little skill (overheads are slow as fuck and throws do very little damage - compare to SFXT where a generic throw takes a massive chunk of life off). And you play Sagat and Fei - two characters with excellent 'fuck you I hate this game get the hell away from me' moves.

I agree with you about Viper V Sagat. That match up is fucked up. Sagat's chances are slim to none. But in general the difficulty for a rush down character to get in on a zoner is even greater than the zoner's difficulty in surviving when they finally do close the gap, and fucking Sagat has an immense DP. Just save meter and half your vortex woes are gone.

Anyway, if you want to play a turtley snooze-fest you can try playing in Super mode, I'm sure there are still ppl playing who never updated to AE.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: vexinglion on April 30, 2013, 08:50:31 PM
Since you guys are speaking from a so called "scrubs" perspective, I thought I'd add an observation I've made watching some recent and not so recent matches.

One set in particular was infiltration against Combofiend. He used his alts, Hakan and Gouken. Combofiend used Oni the whole time and totally blew him up 4 - 0 until he pulls out Akuma and just abuses air fire balls ad nauseum until he wears Combofiend down and takes the set. Sure no one can debate whether or not he is a great player ( his record speaks for itself ) but fuck he's boring to watch ( for me anyway ).

The other was against Ryan Hart using Sagat. Probably the best I've seen Hart play. Also had the first draw game I've seen in a tourney but just when it looked like hart could take him out; along come those shitty air fire balls. No prizes for guessing who finally won.The conclusion I came to is if Capcom removed Akumas air fire ball; infiltrations win rate would be cut in half

In summary, nerf the air fires or just piss Akuma off all together  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: vexinglion on April 30, 2013, 08:59:48 PM
Also while I think of it, nerf Cammy and Makoto. Make them slow and obese! Buff Sim and give him rogs walk speed!  8)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 01, 2013, 05:38:31 AM
Vortex characters are not the problem. Generally speaking, once you know how a set up works, your defenses should be able to take care of itself. This is why unblockables are such a blight on the game. Players should be rewarded with good defense if they are able to observe set ups through meticulous play.

Apart from unblockables being removed from the game, the characters I probably want to see nerfed would be the following.

Tbh, I'd be happy if they left Viper alone. Akuma, imo needs very slight nerfs. Cammy, maybe just the ex canon strike needs to be tweaked slightly. Bison lk scissor kick to only hit once.

Seth is probably the trickiest character to balance. He just has far too many offensive weapons to defend against, but I would love to either see his SPD move nerfed to 5f startup, and/or the invincibility frames on his DP reduced. Possibly the frame advantage of his vacuum move to be reduced also. 1 of 3 of these changes wouldn't do him too much harm imo.

Fei is in a fairly good place at the moment. I don't think he needs any changes.

Elf needs to be a less random character. Please get rid of this piece of shit character  ;D (No offense CFR lol)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 30, 2013, 09:25:04 PM
Vortex characters are not the problem. Generally speaking, once you know how a set up works, your defenses should be able to take care of itself. This is why unblockables are such a blight on the game. Players should be rewarded with good defense if they are able to observe set ups through meticulous play.

Apart from unblockables being removed from the game, the characters I probably want to see nerfed would be the following.

Tbh, I'd be happy if they left Viper alone. Akuma, imo needs very slight nerfs. Cammy, maybe just the ex canon strike needs to be tweaked slightly. Bison lk scissor kick to only hit once.

Seth is probably the trickiest character to balance. He just has far too many offensive weapons to defend against, but I would love to either see his SPD move nerfed to 5f startup, and/or the invincibility frames on his DP reduced. Possibly the frame advantage of his vacuum move to be reduced also. 1 of 3 of these changes wouldn't do him too much harm imo.

Fei is in a fairly good place at the moment. I don't think he needs any changes.

Elf needs to be a less random character. Please get rid of this piece of shit character  ;D (No offense CFR lol)

For me the problem with Seth is tanden engine thing. That move is fucking bullshit. Full screen command grab that beats dashes. How can he pull a blocking character into him AND be at fucking frame adv! and he has excellent AAs so you can't just jump at him to get over it every time. If they just removed that move altogether, he'd be fine IMO.

And what are you smoking, Meeks, if Bison's light scissor only hit once he would have NOTHING in terms of offense. But rather than 0, it should be -1 IMO. It would make it less easy to just spam it all day AND it would give Gief more of a fighting chance against him.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on April 30, 2013, 09:25:37 PM


Again, you're inducing conclusions about the game in general based on a couple of individual match up details, and I don't think you're basing anything on "high level play."


Actually no, that's what you seem to be doing. If you're claims about defence were true we would see more defensive characters played at the money end of tournaments which we don't and if we do see defence playing a major role, it's from a character that already has a strong mix up/frame trap game anyway.

Akuma, Cammy, Adon, Fei and Seth all have fairly good "lame" styles that can be abused. Fuudo has mastered that BUT with a strong character. He get's both sides of the coin.

I can't really debate with you since you're set in you're thoughts but you have to be absolutely bat shit crazy to say that Sagat and Guile have as much a chance of winning a tournament than Akuma and Cammy. Actually, you can just use the first part without the "Akuma and Cammy" on the end.

Quote
Blocking takes very little skill


It's not the blocking that's the problem when characters like Akuma/Cammy can walk in and out of you're throw range at will and either safely pressure/trap with a normal or come back in for the throw - you're stuck between a rock and a hard place most of the time. What comes after the throw is even scarier. The worst part is that it's all safe. Nothing can be punished. Just nerfing one or two minor area's of these characters is all that's needed.

Quote
Sure no one can debate whether or not he is a great player ( his record speaks for itself ) but fuck he's boring to watch ( for me anyway ).


I agree. He basically takes the character and abuses every strength to it's maximum. He's shit to watch. Watching Xian blow him up with Gen was satisfying. 

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on April 30, 2013, 10:41:56 PM
Name 1 major won by a Cammy.

Sagat doesn't have as much of a chance of winning as Akuma because Akuma's just plain better overall.

I'm not saying Akuma, Fei, Cammy etc aren't better characters than Guile/Sagat etc, i'm just saying your zoning/vortex character dychotomy where all the former need buffs and the latter need nerfs is bullshit - which it is.

Makoto V Guile is already shit for Makoto. Buff Guile's zoning and it's unplayable.

And you just agreed with vexinglion who said Infil wins by turtling with Akuma. You also seemd to imply that the real strength of the top tier is their balance - not their rush down vortex, and you'd be right if you did.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 01, 2013, 12:12:31 AM
And what are you smoking, Meeks, if Bison's light scissor only hit once he would have NOTHING in terms of offense. But rather than 0, it should be -1 IMO. It would make it less easy to just spam it all day AND it would give Gief more of a fighting chance against him.

I'll take -1 on frame advantage (which imo actually is more detrimental for Bison). I highly doubt Bison's offense would suffer by taking away the double hit though. He still has a myriad of options in the corner. It would only take away the mindless scissor kick abuse at mid screen. Mk and HK versions would still be two hits, but it will be less safe.

Quote
It's not the blocking that's the problem when characters like Akuma/Cammy can walk in and out of you're throw range at will and either safely pressure/trap with a normal or come back in for the throw - you're stuck between a rock and a hard place most of the time. What comes after the throw is even scarier. The worst part is that it's all safe. Nothing can be punished. Just nerfing one or two minor area's of these characters is all that's needed.

Every character in the game has safe jump options/setups. Akuma's knockdown game is no different to any other character. He just has a few more options than most. His vortex, IMO does not need nerfing. However, I do think Vexinglion hit the nail on the head when he suggested that Akuma's air fireball game needs nerfing.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: STOZ1105 on May 01, 2013, 12:24:57 AM
And what are you smoking, Meeks, if Bison's light scissor only hit once he would have NOTHING in terms of offense. But rather than 0, it should be -1 IMO. It would make it less easy to just spam it all day AND it would give Gief more of a fighting chance against him.

I'll take -1 on frame advantage (which imo actually is more detrimental for Bison). I highly doubt Bison's offense would suffer by taking away the double hit though. He still has a myriad of options in the corner. It would only take away the mindless scissor kick abuse at mid screen. Mk and HK versions would still be two hits, but it will be less safe.

Just spam neutral jump and most bisons will die anyway. I wouldn't mind about bison getting his scissors nerfed but then he'll need some sort of reward like buffing damage to make it more worth while. Take a note he might have one of the greatest footsies but unlike most other casts his damage output is so poor and plus he can't aa chars who can do something mid air. If they do that how about other safe moves like rekka and jag kicks?

Name 1 major won by a Cammy.

Sagat doesn't have as much of a chance of winning as Akuma because Akuma's just plain better overall.

I'm not saying Akuma, Fei, Cammy etc aren't better characters than Guile/Sagat etc, i'm just saying your zoning/vortex character dychotomy where all the former need buffs and the latter need nerfs is bullshit - which it is.

Makoto V Guile is already shit for Makoto. Buff Guile's zoning and it's unplayable.

And you just agreed with vexinglion who said Infil wins by turtling with Akuma. You also seemd to imply that the real strength of the top tier is their balance - not their rush down vortex, and you'd be right if you did.

You have to take in note those top players who win tourneys and major dont do it by spamming set plays etc which already is spreading across youtube and all and copied by scrubs and all. Most scrubs complain due to their lack of ability to learn and adapt. Mind you there is a BIG difference between mimicing top players moves and being the top player using those moves, ie knowing risks and all.

PS has capcom finished asking for opinions for 2013?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: STOZ1105 on May 01, 2013, 12:34:34 AM
Also I'll leave this here in case. Bit of interesting read maybe agree or disagree but some food for thought? It's Justin Wongs tier list.

http://www.eventhubs.com/columns/2013/apr/29/step-your-game-chapter-131-super-street-fighter-4-arcade-edition-v2012-tier-list/
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: ayyitsrobert on May 01, 2013, 01:07:52 AM
i just hope capcom doesn't listen to half the stuff that's been put out by them capcom unity guys. just did a quick read through of some character threads and people are just screaming the most ridiculous things.

capcom unity guys must have the largest drug trafficking network for them to have so much crack for them to make such stupid suggestions.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 01, 2013, 01:21:32 AM

Makoto V Guile is already shit for Makoto. Buff Guile's zoning and it's unplayable.


So because you think Makoto can't get in on Guile - Guile doesn't need buffs? Ya ok - just pretty much reversed you're whole argument.  ::)  The SRK tier list has it at a half point advantage for Guile. Tough going. What happens when Makoto gets a wee tweak or two?

Quote
You also seemd to imply that the real strength of the top tier is their balance - not their rush down vortex, and you'd be right if you did.

Exactly , so buff the weaker characters defence or attack. tap tap.....helloooooooo. I'm Guile, I have an Ultra that does 300 damage...I'm too strong......Hi I'm Sagat, Both my Ultra's whiff and one puts me in the corner....but I'm fine...  8) Fixing minor shit is not a big deal. I'm not asking for a fucking doomsday combo  :P Just make the reward for zoning equal to the reward for doing a bunch of random shit that all links into something else on hit or block. Seriously, you get combo'd and frame trapped from Akuma and Cammy players because they fucked up their links and it produced something else.  ;D

Quote
Also I'll leave this here in case. Bit of interesting read maybe agree or disagree but some food for thought? It's Justin Wongs tier list


The first 8 characters in S are a bunch of mix up characters with ambiguous shit and unblockables. Must just be pure coincidence.

 
 
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: AtomicX on May 01, 2013, 01:56:37 AM
Quote
i just hope capcom doesn't listen to half the stuff that's been put out by them capcom unity guys. just did a quick read through of some character threads and people are just screaming the most ridiculous things.

Sorry if these have already been linked...



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 01, 2013, 03:04:37 AM
C'mon look at dan, do they hate Korea?

What's the connection between Dan and Korea?

I thought dan is from Korea. capcom is Japan based company?idk.  I mean look at dans normals and specials compared to Ryu's( Japan) lol. It's like they don't give a shit.

Correct me if I'm wrong. 

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 01, 2013, 03:38:20 AM

Makoto V Guile is already shit for Makoto. Buff Guile's zoning and it's unplayable.


So because you think Makoto can't get in on Guile - Guile doesn't need buffs? Ya ok - just pretty much reversed you're whole argument.  ::)  The SRK tier list has it at a half point advantage for Guile. Tough going. What happens when Makoto gets a wee tweak or two?

Quote
You also seemd to imply that the real strength of the top tier is their balance - not their rush down vortex, and you'd be right if you did.

Exactly , so buff the weaker characters defence or attack. tap tap.....helloooooooo. I'm Guile, I have an Ultra that does 300 damage...I'm too strong......Hi I'm Sagat, Both my Ultra's whiff and one puts me in the corner....but I'm fine...  8) Fixing minor shit is not a big deal. I'm not asking for a fucking doomsday combo  :P Just make the reward for zoning equal to the reward for doing a bunch of random shit that all links into something else on hit or block. Seriously, you get combo'd and frame trapped from Akuma and Cammy players because they fucked up their links and it produced something else.  ;D
.
Guile has a lot of matchup in his favour, he doesn't need tweaking.
I don't think zoning should get rewarded because walking back and waiting for an AA is your reward lol, same as Rushdown vica versa.

On a serious note if this patch is coming out. I was hoping they wouldn't touch so and so and jst buff the weaker characters but since this is a big deal, I think they are gonna redo the whole cast?

I'm still waiting for the day that dan gets full screen fireball and his invincible  3 frame dp and Dudley rose vortex hàhaahaha
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 01, 2013, 04:47:47 AM
C'mon look at dan, do they hate Korea?

What's the connection between Dan and Korea?

I thought dan is from Korea. capcom is Japan based company?idk.  I mean look at dans normals and specials compared to Ryu's( Japan) lol. It's like they don't give a shit.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Dan is not from Korea, and Dan has great normals: st.mk, st.lk, st.hk, st.hk, cr.mk, cls.hk, cls.mp

and his specials are also great, besides his fb obviously
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 01, 2013, 08:32:58 AM
Dan's from Hong Kong.


Makoto V Guile is already shit for Makoto. Buff Guile's zoning and it's unplayable.


So because you think Makoto can't get in on Guile - Guile doesn't need buffs? Ya ok - just pretty much reversed you're whole argument.  ::)  The SRK tier list has it at a half point advantage for Guile. Tough going. What happens when Makoto gets a wee tweak or two?

Quote
You also seemd to imply that the real strength of the top tier is their balance - not their rush down vortex, and you'd be right if you did.

Exactly , so buff the weaker characters defence or attack. tap tap.....helloooooooo. I'm Guile, I have an Ultra that does 300 damage...I'm too strong......Hi I'm Sagat, Both my Ultra's whiff and one puts me in the corner....but I'm fine...  8) Fixing minor shit is not a big deal. I'm not asking for a fucking doomsday combo  :P Just make the reward for zoning equal to the reward for doing a bunch of random shit that all links into something else on hit or block. Seriously, you get combo'd and frame trapped from Akuma and Cammy players because they fucked up their links and it produced something else.  ;D

Quote
Also I'll leave this here in case. Bit of interesting read maybe agree or disagree but some food for thought? It's Justin Wongs tier list


The first 8 characters in S are a bunch of mix up characters with ambiguous shit and unblockables. Must just be pure coincidence.

 
 

It's you who's changing your argument. I didn't say individual characters shouldn't be changed, I'm saying your original idea that the game needs to be changed to favour zoning overall is stupid.

That tier list is Justin Wong's opinion, and he is known for having silly MU opinions. All you can base tiers on is statistics which certainly do not suggest a turtling playstyle needs to be buffed in general. All they suggest is that characters like Cammy and Akuma are too good against everyone, not just keep away characters. Besides, Wong rates Sakura highest - a balanced character who has a strong AA and a useful fireball as well as good up-close pressure. Your idea of making her (and everyone else's) fireball and AAs better and her up-close pressure worse is a stupid idea based on what you think the game should be like, and has nothing to do with what tournament winning players do or think.


Mind you there is a BIG difference between mimicing top players moves and being the top player using those moves, ie knowing risks and all.

This is a very good point.

I'll take -1 on frame advantage (which imo actually is more detrimental for Bison). I highly doubt Bison's offense would suffer by taking away the double hit though. He still has a myriad of options in the corner. It would only take away the mindless scissor kick abuse at mid screen. Mk and HK versions would still be two hits, but it will be less safe.

MK and HK are already unsafe unless spaced perfectly. What myriad of options? All of his corner pressure comes from light scissors, if you can focus it brainlessly, he has to add PCs and walk up throws to the mix there, both of which are big risks.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on May 01, 2013, 08:58:26 AM
Also while I think of it, nerf Cammy and Makoto. Make them slow and obese! Buff Sim and give him rogs walk speed!  8)
Aw, but Makoto is already one of the most awkward characters to move with and has the slowest walk speeds. :(
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 01, 2013, 09:15:02 AM
MK and HK are already unsafe unless spaced perfectly. What myriad of options? All of his corner pressure comes from light scissors, if you can focus it brainlessly, he has to add PCs and walk up throws to the mix there, both of which are big risks.

Exactly my point. cr.lk xx lk.scissor kick is still a true block string. He can still whiff punish cr.lk with lk scissor kick because of it's speed. He can still react to focusses with mk or hk versions. He still has head stomps, st.mk and st.hk. You can't tell me that's not a myriad of options. The point is, he has to take some risks if he wants to throw out these moves liberally.

I'm all for Bison to maybe get a better Anti-Air for compensation. Throw in a faster startup for his ex-pc. You know what? I'd even forget everything I just said if they nerfed some of his escape options. He's got a gazillion ways to escape knockdown pressure.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 01, 2013, 09:40:54 AM
MK and HK are already unsafe unless spaced perfectly. What myriad of options? All of his corner pressure comes from light scissors, if you can focus it brainlessly, he has to add PCs and walk up throws to the mix there, both of which are big risks.

Exactly my point. cr.lk xx lk.scissor kick is still a true block string. He can still whiff punish cr.lk with lk scissor kick because of it's speed. He can still react to focusses with mk or hk versions. He still has head stomps, st.mk and st.hk. You can't tell me that's not a myriad of options. The point is, he has to take some risks if he wants to throw out these moves liberally.

I'm all for Bison to maybe get a better Anti-Air for compensation. Throw in a faster startup for his ex-pc. You know what? I'd even forget everything I just said if they nerfed some of his escape options. He's got a gazillion ways to escape knockdown pressure.

Maybe. Anyway, if he has you in the corner, he should have a myriad of options. Everyone should. If you're in the corner it should be you who has to take the big risks to get out, not the other guy to keep you there. I feel like if you can focus light scissors Bison would have too many flaws in maintaining pressure. He already has no mix ups, that inescapable chip damage is his mix up, if you can just focus it, he doesn't have any consistent pressure.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: robsux on May 01, 2013, 09:44:00 AM
MK and HK are already unsafe unless spaced perfectly. What myriad of options? All of his corner pressure comes from light scissors, if you can focus it brainlessly, he has to add PCs and walk up throws to the mix there, both of which are big risks.

Exactly my point. cr.lk xx lk.scissor kick is still a true block string. He can still whiff punish cr.lk with lk scissor kick because of it's speed. He can still react to focusses with mk or hk versions. He still has head stomps, st.mk and st.hk. You can't tell me that's not a myriad of options. The point is, he has to take some risks if he wants to throw out these moves liberally.

I'm all for Bison to maybe get a better Anti-Air for compensation. Throw in a faster startup for his ex-pc. You know what? I'd even forget everything I just said if they nerfed some of his escape options. He's got a gazillion ways to escape knockdown pressure.
For me and the characters I use, it's really frustrating how easy it is for Bison to escape safely during an attackers block strings with EX Psycho Crusher.  There are many characters that cannot punish this move on block such as viper, rose etc.  You have to make very solid reads of when he will use it, which at times seems unfair especially when it's not punishable by a majority of the cast.  It can also be used offensively in the corner which will be safe on block, actually i think he is plus if he's up close and uses ex psycho crusher to end up in the corner. 

I think the recovery of Ex Psycho crusher needs to be longer so it can be punished properly, or the distance it travels reduced.  Then I think it's fair to look into his AA. 

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 01, 2013, 09:52:23 AM
MK and HK are already unsafe unless spaced perfectly. What myriad of options? All of his corner pressure comes from light scissors, if you can focus it brainlessly, he has to add PCs and walk up throws to the mix there, both of which are big risks.

Exactly my point. cr.lk xx lk.scissor kick is still a true block string. He can still whiff punish cr.lk with lk scissor kick because of it's speed. He can still react to focusses with mk or hk versions. He still has head stomps, st.mk and st.hk. You can't tell me that's not a myriad of options. The point is, he has to take some risks if he wants to throw out these moves liberally.

I'm all for Bison to maybe get a better Anti-Air for compensation. Throw in a faster startup for his ex-pc. You know what? I'd even forget everything I just said if they nerfed some of his escape options. He's got a gazillion ways to escape knockdown pressure.
For me and the characters I use, it's really frustrating how easy it is for Bison to escape safely during an attackers block strings with EX Psycho Crusher.  There are many characters that cannot punish this move on block such as viper, rose etc.  You have to make very solid reads of when he will use it, which at times seems unfair especially when it's not punishable by a majority of the cast.  It can also be used offensively in the corner which will be safe on block, actually i think he is plus if he's up close and uses ex psycho crusher to end up in the corner. 

I think the recovery of Ex Psycho crusher needs to be longer so it can be punished properly, or the distance it travels reduced.  Then I think it's fair to look into his AA.

Both of my characters can punish all his escapes on block and even counter them (HS/DR) if I'm sharp enough, so I don't look at Bison as a character who gets away with too much. However I think reducing the distance EX PC travels would be a good idea. Or maybe reduce his meter building so he doesn't tend to always have 1 bar to burn.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 01, 2013, 10:21:26 AM
Bison relies heavily on ex pc, so meter building should remain untouched. He already has fairly shitty reversal options, and maybe it's the reason why he gets so many escape options. Blanka used to get away with absolute murder with the distance recovery but that was nerfed. Perhaps Bison should get the same treatment. Probably only a select few characters are able to punish Bison's ex pc on block, but why not give the rest of the cast an equal chance of doing so. If we are talking about balance, we shouldn't have to narrow punishes to a select few characters. It's why people turn to the top tiers.

I don't want to see Bison turn into a shitty character. Essentially, I feel like you can't really lock down Bison offensively. Sure there are options to punish all his escape options, but a lot of the time, it's making a read, and not punishing reactively. Well some you can, depending on the knockdown set up of course. It would be nice to be able to react offensively to what he does on defense.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 01, 2013, 11:37:09 AM
Your idea of making her (and everyone else's) fireball and AAs better and her up-close pressure worse is a stupid idea based on what you think the game should be like, and has nothing to do with what tournament winning players do or think.


Insert face palm gif.

Sakura's not a zoning character soj. I'm actually speaking to someone who's not capable of thinking or has never played SF4 before.

Basically you can't handle zoning and therefore think it shouldn't be a strong part of the game - ok. You could have said that.

Quote
what you think the game should be like


I'm assuming that you're thinking by buffing the zoning characters you think I want better zoning tools. That's not the case. You could quite easily give them slight tweaks to existing normals and specials that would allow them better dynamics in fighting vortex characters. Why not make Guile's flash kick send the opponent further away? Why not give Sagat some extra frame advantage on TK so he can actually frame trap better? Why not give Gouken a hit confirm combo so he can push opponents away from him instead of eating endless pressure ?

"Buffing the Zoners" Does not need to mean "Buffing Zoning" It means making their task of fighting a vortex character better. Until I start seeing Gouken and Sagat players dominating and not having to play within an inch of their life to win, I'll still say this game is tilted towards attack and not defence.  You should look up Alioune's changes for Sagat. He's got some really weird requests that are all based on making Sagat a more fun and offensive character. I'd even welcome that in favour of toning the zoning down!!!  ;D

Seriously when I saw Bonchan's Sagat beat infiltration at the teams in CC it was like watching a live feed of baby Jesus being born. It's the exception not the norm.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on May 01, 2013, 11:46:43 AM
Why the fuck are we even talking about nerfing Bison or Makoto? They're not broken or OP threats. If every character receives a whole bunch of nerfs or buffs- watch this game become less balanced than it is now.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on May 01, 2013, 12:06:57 PM
Quote
i just hope capcom doesn't listen to half the stuff that's been put out by them capcom unity guys. just did a quick read through of some character threads and people are just screaming the most ridiculous things.

Sorry if these have already been linked...





The funniest one is still Cammy's 'slight' nerfs. Go, modders! Go, Super Mugen Fighter IV Arcade Edition 2015! Haha.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 01, 2013, 12:10:51 PM
There's an Akuma one. I think it was the first one.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 01, 2013, 12:24:39 PM
Dan's from Hong Kong.

Dan isnt from Hong Kong??
his style is called Saikyo, which is japanese for strongest
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Razorsharp on May 01, 2013, 01:52:24 PM
A lot of people practise martial arts that's not native to their own countries.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 01, 2013, 01:54:05 PM
A lot of people practise martial arts that's not native to their own countries.

but this is Dan, he created his own style from what he learned from Gouken before he got kicked out of his dojo or whatever
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: vexinglion on May 01, 2013, 01:59:34 PM
Also while I think of it, nerf Cammy and Makoto. Make them slow and obese! Buff Sim and give him rogs walk speed!  8)
Aw, but Makoto is already one of the most awkward characters to move with and has the slowest walk speeds. :(

I wasn't being serious....More just bitching because I struggle against Cammy and Makoto  >:(. Actually come to think of it; in the right hands I struggle with the whole cast  :o

That kind of makes what Kingtua was saying about the strength of the player and not the character true also but if you see an A rank Dan and an A rank Cammy, you can safely assume the Dan player has had to work a shit tonne harder than the Cammy to get those results. I think everyone's got valid perspectives though.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 01, 2013, 03:16:36 PM
Actually sanford didn't ask for hardly anything.  ???

People want the zoners buffed because that was Street Fighters strength. Now you can jump around like a loony over 15 fireballs - still not die - then kill someone cause they missed a tech....

That's the main reason the game is so scrubby. Mistakes...pffft....I'll try again....and again...then mash an Ultra....

Zoners also never have a good come back ability OR damaging whiff punishers. Sagat for example wouldn't even do 300 for a full punish. Where as characters with an already abundant amount of tools and way's round zoning do more damage. It just doesn't make sense, on any level.

Right now there is zero reason to play a zoning character if you want to do well.

Based on what you've said above you think a) SF doesn't favour zoners b) that should be changed.

What was I supposed to think, that when you said 'oh zoners are too weak in this game,' that you wanted them changed into better offensive characters? Why would I think that when you clearly opened this argument with the claim that SF should be more about zoning.

As I said, you can go back to original Super. It sounds like that was the game you want AE to be. Sim, Guile, Ryu and Honda were top tier back then.

And FTR yeah, Sakura is not bad at zoning. Obviously she will get outzoned by the likes of Sim and Sagat but she can play a pretty strong keep out game VS rush down characters.

Anyway, I'm done with this argument. You just keep changing your meaning to "win" an online argument.

PS Check the manual, Dan is from Hong Kong.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 01, 2013, 05:02:29 PM

Based on what you've said above you think a) SF doesn't favour zoners b) that should be changed.



Correct. How ever they decide to do that is up to them. If I can zone but have a few tricks in my bag then it's just as valuable a buff. You ever played a lame Akuma or Seth? They make Sagat look like Viper. So why can't Sagat either be better at what he's good at or better on the offence? All I want to see is some of the more traditional battles take place again. I want to chew my own face off watching Viper vs Rufus.

Quote


As I said, you can go back to original Super. It sounds like that was the game you want AE to be. Sim, Guile, Ryu and Honda were top tier back then.


Super was better than AE. 

What I can't understand is why not just make everyone strong . Would you complain about Cammy's EX dive kick if Yun had a better dive kick himself? Would people complain about Akuma's air fireball if Guile got his meter building back or Sagat got another 30 damage on TU and TK?

Just make everyone strong. That way = less mistakes = better players. Then everyone has BS and no one can cry  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 02, 2013, 01:33:47 AM
I got my flags mixed up my bad

What does balance mean?

Some find Sakura too strong, some reckon she's fine.
 
look at the rest of the cast. Imo, jury, chun-li, Ryu are good examples of balance.
They can put pressure and play the keep away game at the same time no matter the matchup.
When characters perspective is out of the way it now goes down to the characters move set, stamina, frame data walk speeds, etc.
Then the complaining starts coming in again.

Look at gief.

He suffers from all zoners, but giefs reward is a nice big chunk of life and his damage output is decent for his speed.

Although he suffers greatly from zoners, he does very well against characters with no fireballs

I remember Justin Wong listed gief as a turtle character lol.
Yea because he plays rufus hàhaahaha.

The response from players were overwhelming XD.
"How is gief a turtle when he has to get in to win" hahaha
" I play Dudley 8/3 giefs favor"
"Guile needs to build more meter on booms"
^^ "this guy is smoking crack"

You got the so called garbage tiers complaining about the grapplers, you got the grapplers complaining about the zoners, you the got the zoners complaining about Rushdown, your got the rushdowns complaining about the vortex.

In the end it's all mixed opinions.
Some characters are jst more viable then others, or that's how others see it.



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 02, 2013, 08:20:16 AM
You got the so called garbage tiers complaining about the grapplers, you got the grapplers complaining about the zoners, you the got the zoners complaining about Rushdown, your got the rushdowns complaining about the vortex.

In the end it's all mixed opinions.
Some characters are jst more viable then others, or that's how others see it.

Vortex characters can manage space, albeit not as effectively as characters with fireballs, but zoners (in what I assume you mean characters with fireballs) cannot play a vortex game.

My argument has never been <this subset of characters> is greater than <another subset of characters>. Categorically, vortex characters are perceived to be better because they rely on their opposition to not know the setups from a knockdown. This is fine. I think what makes the game shift entirely in a character's favour is how safe certain mixups are. Seth is a prime example. He doesn't just hit you with 50/50s on knockdown. He's giving you essentially a rock/paper/scissors game that's in his favour. When you look at some of the properties of his moveset, it's hard to ignore how unbelievably good this character has become. DP has some ridiculous amount of invincibility frames that cancels after two hits. A jump in mp move that somehow defies all logic when it comes to priority. A wall jump that traverses the entire screen. A command throw with +advantage that pretty much initiates the rock/paper/scissors mixup game.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 03, 2013, 12:15:27 AM
You got the so called garbage tiers complaining about the grapplers, you got the grapplers complaining about the zoners, you the got the zoners complaining about Rushdown, your got the rushdowns complaining about the vortex.

In the end it's all mixed opinions.
Some characters are jst more viable then others, or that's how others see it.

Vortex characters can manage space, albeit not as effectively as characters with fireballs, but zoners (in what I assume you mean characters with fireballs) cannot play a vortex game.

My argument has never been <this subset of characters> is greater than <another subset of characters>. Categorically, vortex characters are perceived to be better because they rely on their opposition to not know the setups from a knockdown. This is fine. I think what makes the game shift entirely in a character's favour is how safe certain mixups are. Seth is a prime example. He doesn't just hit you with 50/50s on knockdown. He's giving you essentially a rock/paper/scissors game that's in his favour. When you look at some of the properties of his moveset, it's hard to ignore how unbelievably good this character has become. DP has some ridiculous amount of invincibility frames that cancels after two hits. A jump in mp move that somehow defies all logic when it comes to priority. A wall jump that traverses the entire screen. A command throw with +advantage that pretty much initiates the rock/paper/scissors mixup game.

Exactly, with all the tools At Seths disposable, do you reckon his health balances him as a character?


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on May 03, 2013, 01:26:11 AM
Seth 500 stamina 500 stun.

Balanced.

Thing is, you'll still lose to that. But it'd be nice to kill Seth if you guess right once when he doesn't have meter lol.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 03, 2013, 08:52:45 AM
Exactly, with all the tools At Seths disposable, do you reckon his health balances him as a character?

Nope!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: robsux on May 03, 2013, 09:39:56 AM
You got the so called garbage tiers complaining about the grapplers, you got the grapplers complaining about the zoners, you the got the zoners complaining about Rushdown, your got the rushdowns complaining about the vortex.

In the end it's all mixed opinions.
Some characters are jst more viable then others, or that's how others see it.

Vortex characters can manage space, albeit not as effectively as characters with fireballs, but zoners (in what I assume you mean characters with fireballs) cannot play a vortex game.

My argument has never been <this subset of characters> is greater than <another subset of characters>. Categorically, vortex characters are perceived to be better because they rely on their opposition to not know the setups from a knockdown. This is fine. I think what makes the game shift entirely in a character's favour is how safe certain mixups are. Seth is a prime example. He doesn't just hit you with 50/50s on knockdown. He's giving you essentially a rock/paper/scissors game that's in his favour. When you look at some of the properties of his moveset, it's hard to ignore how unbelievably good this character has become. DP has some ridiculous amount of invincibility frames that cancels after two hits. A jump in mp move that somehow defies all logic when it comes to priority. A wall jump that traverses the entire screen. A command throw with +advantage that pretty much initiates the rock/paper/scissors mixup game.
Don't forget the headstomp and divekick.  All can be used together to make it a rock, paper, scissor, bomb, knife game.  Totally agree Ben on this
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rip The Jacker on May 03, 2013, 09:55:03 AM
One of the things I find really tough against Seth is what to do after he pulls you in with that suction move.

If I try to poke or tech throw, I often eat an SPD. If I try to back dash, I often get hit confirmed into a combo or I get swept. If I do nothing, I get thrown or the pressure just continues.

Is there a universally "safe" option? Or is it a guessing game?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 03, 2013, 10:01:07 AM
One of the things I find really tough against Seth is what to do after he pulls you in with that suction move.

If I try to poke or tech throw, I often eat an SPD. If I try to back dash, I often get hit confirmed into a combo or I get swept. If I do nothing, I get thrown or the pressure just continues.

Is there a universally "safe" option? Or is it a guessing game?

There's a universally safe option for HIM there, not you, LOL. The move is scumbag bullshit. If you are doing anything on the ground, including walking back, you are fucked. Can't even counter it cus nothing goes through it (except maybe ridiculously risky stuff like random ultras).

Footsies? Ha! Fuck that shit, I am Seth! Vacuum -> flowchart -> win. TROLOLOLOLOLOL.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rip The Jacker on May 03, 2013, 10:07:55 AM
Yeah. If you're outside the range you can EX MGB just as he finishes the vacuum and it will hit.

But you're right, it won't "beat" the vacuum. If you do the EX MGB too early, or if he starts vacuuming just after you do your MGB, the vacuum will suck you out of it.

Short swing blow doesn't work either, since the vacuum lasts for as long as or longer than the SSB animation, so you get sucked out.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 03, 2013, 10:16:43 AM
The vacuum does not suck instantly although it looks like it does - I wouldn't say you can react to it though although Seth players believe that you can. Seth is a character where you have to play unconventional too. So jumping is an option , especially neutral jumping.

You can also focus back dash the Dp or pokes after the suction. You have to be really mindful of Seths meter. With 2 bars I would be inclined to do nothing - with no bars I would pick an option every time - back dash or neutral jump.

Also if he jumps I would focus back dash the dive kick if you can't AA. The last place you want to be with Seth is in block stun. Easier said than done though.

As much as I hate him at least he loses to a Rock/paper/scissors himself. Which is why I can tolerate it.

With Akuma and Cammy they have Rock/Paper/Scissors but you don't get to play.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 03, 2013, 10:17:59 AM
If you're not too far out for it to whiff (which is really very far away from him) and not so close that you can't stuff its start up with a normal (in other words, the only time any Seth player will ever do it), you have 0 options. It beats everything, and then you're at a major frame disadvantage, or eating a combo if you pressed a button. If within its range you can only get around it by preemptively jumping, which you can't rely on because you'll end up eating a bunch of AAs every round.

Seth's downside is supposed to be his walk speed. Perhaps only Makoto is slower. Anyway, it's not a real downside, because at every range he has something to bypass every character's strategy and nail you with mixups that are unreasonably difficult to delineate.

The vacuum does not suck instantly although it looks like it does - I wouldn't say you can react to it though although Seth players believe that you can. Seth is a character where you have to play unconventional too. So jumping is an option , especially neutral jumping.

You can also focus back dash the Dp or pokes after the suction. You have to be really mindful of Seths meter. With 2 bars I would be inclined to do nothing - with no bars I would pick an option every time - back dash or neutral jump.

Also if he jumps I would focus back dash the dive kick if you can't AA. The last place you want to be with Seth is in block stun. Easier said than done though.

As much as I hate him at least he loses to a Rock/paper/scissors himself. Which is why I can tolerate it.

With Akuma and Cammy they have Rock/Paper/Scissors but you don't get to play.

Akuma, Cammy and Ibuki can be delineated, IMO. Seth, like Fuerte, is impossible. You just have to guess. Unlike Fuerte, Seth isn't free on wake up and does massive damage.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 03, 2013, 10:20:58 AM
I just want the wall dive removed. A character with so many options should not be allowed to escape a bad position for free. If he puts himself in there he should pay.

Actually , no one should be allowed to escape the corner without burning meter.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 03, 2013, 11:27:21 AM
Don't forget the headstomp and divekick.  All can be used together to make it a rock, paper, scissor, bomb, knife game.  Totally agree Ben on this

Yes ... those too  :-\

There's a universally safe option for HIM there, not you, LOL. The move is scumbag bullshit. If you are doing anything on the ground, including walking back, you are fucked. Can't even counter it cus nothing goes through it (except maybe ridiculously risky stuff like random ultras).

Footsies? Ha! Fuck that shit, I am Seth! Vacuum -> flowchart -> win. TROLOLOLOLOLOL.

^ This. This move starts everything that makes shit go downhill very quickly.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 03, 2013, 11:47:50 AM

Akuma, Cammy and Ibuki can be delineated, IMO. Seth, like Fuerte, is impossible. You just have to guess. Unlike Fuerte, Seth isn't free on wake up and does massive damage.

Fuerte aint that good once you've figured his shit out (if you can even be bothered ... :o) although yes he's a shit BS character. Ibuki I wouldn't put in my list of "bullshit vortex" because her set ups at least require spacing and a KD to get going also you can learn her set ups. Along with Yang I can respect her a little bit more as a character because she has weakness and can have a tough time if a player does know the set ups. This is the way these characters should operate IMO. Although I'd still say this is the strongest style to play.

With Seth I feel like once you can at least win 1 gamble it's better than him winning 3. It evens out.

Seth has weakness. He's slow , has average buttons and low health. At least you can guess. It's an option and you win big when you do. I've accepted this is the way he's meant to be.

The problem with Akuma and to a lesser extent Cammy is that they have no weakness. Everything is a frame trap or 50/50 without the worry of whiffing an SPD or DP. 
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 03, 2013, 08:53:44 PM

Akuma, Cammy and Ibuki can be delineated, IMO. Seth, like Fuerte, is impossible. You just have to guess. Unlike Fuerte, Seth isn't free on wake up and does massive damage.

Fuerte aint that good once you've figured his shit out (if you can even be bothered ... :o) although yes he's a shit BS character. Ibuki I wouldn't put in my list of "bullshit vortex" because her set ups at least require spacing and a KD to get going also you can learn her set ups. Along with Yang I can respect her a little bit more as a character because she has weakness and can have a tough time if a player does know the set ups. This is the way these characters should operate IMO. Although I'd still say this is the strongest style to play.

With Seth I feel like once you can at least win 1 gamble it's better than him winning 3. It evens out.

Seth has weakness. He's slow , has average buttons and low health. At least you can guess. It's an option and you win big when you do. I've accepted this is the way he's meant to be.

The problem with Akuma and to a lesser extent Cammy is that they have no weakness. Everything is a frame trap or 50/50 without the worry of whiffing an SPD or DP.

I play Dudley and yes elfuerte is sort of a easy fight for me, I jst don't give him space and momentum, when he has ex, best way to deal with him is jst stay close, it's jst when he gets ultra is when I actually think of how to approach him lol.

Ibuki is jst too good she has everything she needs to be a viable charcter.
I have no gripe against seth.he still has to work abit to get the win, also one mistake could cost him so I reckon he is still alright.

If anyone remembered when poongko faced fuudo at Evo idk which one but that was a insane match, in the end fuudo jst had it down.





Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 05, 2013, 11:57:18 AM
Fuudo had to win with ridiculous reads and guesses though. He literally had to get lucky to win the game. That would be fine if Poongko was anywhere near as good as Fuudo, but he wasn't. Have them play a Ryu mirror (they both mained Ryu at one point) and see what happens. Poongko wouldn't even win a round IMO. You guys know Poongko is the fraud who invented air EX tatsu -> land -> random DP with Ryu, right?

How can you think Ibuki is too good and Seth is just alright...

Everyone has a complaint about Seth and they're right, the character is a fucker. I don't know how you can balance a character that was designed to be ridiculously over powered in the first place. Giving him 500 stun and an even slower walk speed (maybe he can't walk) would just about do it, but that'd make him a shit and pointless character like T. Hawk.

Just delete him all together and give that character slot to another 3S or Alpha character.

With the single exception of Shang, I'm at least 8-2 against every Seth player I run into (more like 2-8 VS Shang), but I have a hard time even beating rubbish Ibukis, and don't me started on good ones, I'd say in all against Cyph I'm something like 1-50. Still, I don't think Ibuki is OP and I despise Seth. It's not about how much of a hard time you have personally with the character, we're playing theory fighter here, and in theory, Seth is a broken character - he was designed to be that way and every subsequent effort to balance him was just Capcom being their usual 'let's change something  barely relevant, hm, remove one normal and increase health by 150. Alright, we're good' selves.

Didn't most tournaments and offline competitions enforce a ban on him in the Vanilla days? We should go back to that.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 06, 2013, 12:14:16 AM
Fuudo had to win with ridiculous reads and guesses though. He literally had to get lucky to win the game.

Did you watch it while you were eating space cakes? Fuudo did the same thing in the same way to Poongko at Gods Garden after Evo. Lucky twice? Same with Daigo.

Fuudo completely out played Poongko. You must just watch matches through some different kind of 3D glasses Soj  ;D

Option select back dash Ultra's and DP reads are just luck ??? Comon mate. 

Poongko is suited to Seth because that's his style. The problem with that style is that if you base you're whole game around taking risks there has to become a time in the game when you're risks don't pay because you face someone smarter.

In Vanilla both he and akuma (surprise) were broken. Sagat was actually probably the 3rd or 4th best character. Even Ryu was uber powerful. Vanilla was good because everyone could fuck you up.

Apart from Guile....



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Goldfish on May 06, 2013, 10:18:47 AM
Fuudo had to win with ridiculous reads and guesses though. He literally had to get lucky to win the game. That would be fine if Poongko was anywhere near as good as Fuudo, but he wasn't. Have them play a Ryu mirror (they both mained Ryu at one point) and see what happens. Poongko wouldn't even win a round IMO. You guys know Poongko is the fraud who invented air EX tatsu -> land -> random DP with Ryu, right?

How can you think Ibuki is too good and Seth is just alright...

Everyone has a complaint about Seth and they're right, the character is a fucker. I don't know how you can balance a character that was designed to be ridiculously over powered in the first place. Giving him 500 stun and an even slower walk speed (maybe he can't walk) would just about do it, but that'd make him a shit and pointless character like T. Hawk.

Just delete him all together and give that character slot to another 3S or Alpha character.

With the single exception of Shang, I'm at least 8-2 against every Seth player I run into (more like 2-8 VS Shang), but I have a hard time even beating rubbish Ibukis, and don't me started on good ones, I'd say in all against Cyph I'm something like 1-50. Still, I don't think Ibuki is OP and I despise Seth. It's not about how much of a hard time you have personally with the character, we're playing theory fighter here, and in theory, Seth is a broken character - he was designed to be that way and every subsequent effort to balance him was just Capcom being their usual 'let's change something  barely relevant, hm, remove one normal and increase health by 150. Alright, we're good' selves.

Didn't most tournaments and offline competitions enforce a ban on him in the Vanilla days? We should go back to that.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/may/03/topanga-asia-league-day-1-early-results-battle-logs-schedule-rules-and-more/

Seth isn't as strong as you think he is.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 06, 2013, 11:24:31 AM

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/may/03/topanga-asia-league-day-1-early-results-battle-logs-schedule-rules-and-more/

Seth isn't as strong as you think he is.


I love that format. It's way better than this best of 3 nonsense. Sure FT3 is exciting but the better players are rewarded in the long run over the bigger stretch.

I think that's how I would run a money match if I were to gamble money on SF.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 06, 2013, 12:20:21 PM
I was always wondering if Seth was so OP. why didn't diago use him competitively?

I know he plays the whole cast good but
We saw him play with guile and akuma, then went to yun. Did I miss anything?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 06, 2013, 12:40:08 PM
I was always wondering if Seth was so OP. why didn't diago use him competitively?

I know he plays the whole cast good but
We saw him play with guile and akuma, then went to yun. Did I miss anything?

maybe he just doesnt enjoy playing Seth.
watch him play Ryu, you cant play like that with Seth
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Goldfish on May 06, 2013, 12:53:56 PM
I was always wondering if Seth was so OP. why didn't diago use him competitively?

I know he plays the whole cast good but
We saw him play with guile and akuma, then went to yun. Did I miss anything?

I think Diago prefers footsies base characters. Seth on the other hand has little to no footsies.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 06, 2013, 12:57:41 PM
I was always wondering if Seth was so OP. why didn't diago use him competitively?

I know he plays the whole cast good but
We saw him play with guile and akuma, then went to yun. Did I miss anything?

maybe he just doesnt enjoy playing Seth.
watch him play Ryu, you cant play like that with Seth


Funnily enough I reckon Daigo had stumbled onto the power of Akuma before infiltration. If you watch Daigo's Akuma he played like infiltration does now. Daigo is the classic Zoner.

The only reason he played Yun was because Yun was so retardidly good that with so much money on the line it was a no brainer. I'd have played Yun if I were serious about winning that Evo.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 06, 2013, 01:07:34 PM
Im not sure what you mean by that, but Daigo's Akuma was alot like his Ryu, except for the fact that he could apply a vortex on a knockdown
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 06, 2013, 01:22:32 PM
Im not sure what you mean by that, but Daigo's Akuma was alot like his Ryu, except for the fact that he could apply a vortex on a knockdown


I mean everyone gave Daigo shit for playing a defensive/turtle/footsie style Akuma but it turns out that's actually the more effective style (if you've watched any infiltration matches) as opposed to the Tokido - heavily set up/vortex dependent version.

Basically bore the shit out of you're opponent until he makes a mistake then capitalize on your KD strengths.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 06, 2013, 02:29:51 PM
yeah i loved his Akuma, i wish more people played Akuma like that
imo its so much better watching a good footsies war, rather than battle of the vortexes
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 13, 2013, 11:47:17 AM
maybe he just doesnt enjoy playing Seth.
watch him play Ryu, you cant play like that with Seth
Not enjoying playing Seth is out of the question.
Don't forget diago plays to win and mostly everyone in the fgc considered Seth top tier.

Funnily enough I reckon Daigo had stumbled onto the power of Akuma before infiltration. If you watch Daigo's Akuma he played like infiltration does now. Daigo is the classic Zoner.

The only reason he played Yun was because Yun was so retardidly good that with so much money on the line it was a no brainer. I'd have played Yun if I were serious about winning that Evo.
I'm talking about why we don't see him use Seth at high level play if ppl say he's so op, or cammy?


Isn't sagat the best zoner why didn't he go with him?

There was a video of diago explaining his choices for his characters he preferred and rank characters in their tiers. I jst can't find it.

That vid will prob answer my question. All I remember was he said Hakan is useless, he preferred Ryu because he has all the tools to be viable. He said charge characters always need their charge thus in momentum in battle can be lost easily.

I don't think he said anything about Seth.



Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on May 13, 2013, 12:27:07 PM
You need to capitalize on your strengths as a player. Daigo has some of the best footsies in the business, Seth as a character doesn't. Pure guessing games and vortex just don't seem to be Daigo's style.

Liking the character and style, and having fun still count for something even at the pro level. If Zangief suddenly became top tier after v2013 it would still be unlikely for many pros to switch to him, more likely there'd be a lot of new alts as gief counter picks.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 13, 2013, 12:50:17 PM
maybe he just doesnt enjoy playing Seth.
watch him play Ryu, you cant play like that with Seth
Not enjoying playing Seth is out of the question.
Don't forget diago plays to win and mostly everyone in the fgc considered Seth top tier.

Funnily enough I reckon Daigo had stumbled onto the power of Akuma before infiltration. If you watch Daigo's Akuma he played like infiltration does now. Daigo is the classic Zoner.

The only reason he played Yun was because Yun was so retardidly good that with so much money on the line it was a no brainer. I'd have played Yun if I were serious about winning that Evo.
I'm talking about why we don't see him use Seth at high level play if ppl say he's so op, or cammy?


Isn't sagat the best zoner why didn't he go with him?

There was a video of diago explaining his choices for his characters he preferred and rank characters in their tiers. I jst can't find it.

That vid will prob answer my question. All I remember was he said Hakan is useless, he preferred Ryu because he has all the tools to be viable. He said charge characters always need their charge thus in momentum in battle can be lost easily.

I don't think he said anything about Seth.

He plays Ryu because he wants to, simple as that.. there doesnt have to be an ultimate reason for everything in the world
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 13, 2013, 01:30:16 PM
maybe he just doesnt enjoy playing Seth.
watch him play Ryu, you cant play like that with Seth
Not enjoying playing Seth is out of the question.
Don't forget diago plays to win and mostly everyone in the fgc considered Seth top tier.

Funnily enough I reckon Daigo had stumbled onto the power of Akuma before infiltration. If you watch Daigo's Akuma he played like infiltration does now. Daigo is the classic Zoner.

The only reason he played Yun was because Yun was so retardidly good that with so much money on the line it was a no brainer. I'd have played Yun if I were serious about winning that Evo.
I'm talking about why we don't see him use Seth at high level play if ppl say he's so op, or cammy?


Isn't sagat the best zoner why didn't he go with him?

There was a video of diago explaining his choices for his characters he preferred and rank characters in their tiers. I jst can't find it.

That vid will prob answer my question. All I remember was he said Hakan is useless, he preferred Ryu because he has all the tools to be viable. He said charge characters always need their charge thus in momentum in battle can be lost easily.

I don't think he said anything about Seth.

He plays Ryu because he wants to, simple as that.. there doesnt have to be an ultimate reason for everything in the world
Only casual gamers say that.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on May 13, 2013, 02:29:04 PM
I've played some Bejewelled blitz on my phone and from my experience, i'd say Daigo just likes the character and it suits him.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Razorsharp on May 13, 2013, 02:53:40 PM
Daigo just doesn't rate Seth as a character. In the year the Fuudo won Evo, when Daigo was using Yun, he was asked to give his opinion on which characters were good, and Seth wasn't even on his radar. I also won't forget after that, Poongko virtually obliterated Daigo with Seth at Evo.

Daigo judges characters by his own merit. He doesn't care that everybody else thinks that Seth is an op'ed character. If he himself thinks that Seth is not a good character, he will not use him. Simple as that.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 13, 2013, 05:32:50 PM

Isn't sagat the best zoner why didn't he go with him?


Because Sagats ass and Zoning is dead in this game. Daigo play's footsie based characters.

Somone has posted leaked changes for Sagat on SRK. I've copied the post. Not sure if 100% legit or not but he does have a source. I'd say those are pretty good changes although I'd still have liked the damage changed on TK so the second hit did more than the first, it's still a fairly ass special. Super buff is completely pointless, I never understand why they buff supers.

According to combofiend there, Sagat gets :

* Stand short special cancellable on second hit
* U1 gets full damage in corner
* EX TK 0 frames on block (1 frame nerf)
* Super gets full damage off juggle

If Akuma and Cammy get slight tweaks these changes will make Sagat powerful again and a legit pick IMO.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 13, 2013, 06:14:21 PM
maybe he just doesnt enjoy playing Seth.
watch him play Ryu, you cant play like that with Seth
Not enjoying playing Seth is out of the question.
Don't forget diago plays to win and mostly everyone in the fgc considered Seth top tier.

Funnily enough I reckon Daigo had stumbled onto the power of Akuma before infiltration. If you watch Daigo's Akuma he played like infiltration does now. Daigo is the classic Zoner.

The only reason he played Yun was because Yun was so retardidly good that with so much money on the line it was a no brainer. I'd have played Yun if I were serious about winning that Evo.
I'm talking about why we don't see him use Seth at high level play if ppl say he's so op, or cammy?


Isn't sagat the best zoner why didn't he go with him?

There was a video of diago explaining his choices for his characters he preferred and rank characters in their tiers. I jst can't find it.

That vid will prob answer my question. All I remember was he said Hakan is useless, he preferred Ryu because he has all the tools to be viable. He said charge characters always need their charge thus in momentum in battle can be lost easily.

I don't think he said anything about Seth.

He plays Ryu because he wants to, simple as that.. there doesnt have to be an ultimate reason for everything in the world
Only casual gamers say that.

come on now, are you seriously suggesting that playing for fun in the pro circut is so absurd?
Daigo has stated before that he is playing to enjoy himself and to entertain people, he knows he reached his peak a while ago and people are overtaking him every day
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on May 13, 2013, 07:25:58 PM

Isn't sagat the best zoner why didn't he go with him?


Because Sagats ass and Zoning is dead in this game. Daigo play's footsie based characters.

Somone has posted leaked changes for Sagat on SRK. I've copied the post. Not sure if 100% legit or not but he does have a source. I'd say those are pretty good changes although I'd still have liked the damage changed on TK so the second hit did more than the first, it's still a fairly ass special. Super buff is completely pointless, I never understand why they buff supers.

According to combofiend there, Sagat gets :

* Stand short special cancellable on second hit
* U1 gets full damage in corner
* EX TK 0 frames on block (1 frame nerf)
* Super gets full damage off juggle

If Akuma and Cammy get slight tweaks these changes will make Sagat powerful again and a legit pick IMO.

Damn doesn't the U1 buff, buff him a ton? Not sure how good stand short special cancellable on second hit is. I guess that gives him a really good buffer button, but does that mean the 1st hit has to connect too for the cancel? I can't really remember if a further spaced st.lk can only hit once. Confusing as he has both a cl.lk and a far.lk and according to app, both have 2 hits in it.

Yay for TK nerf lol.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 13, 2013, 07:31:31 PM

Isn't sagat the best zoner why didn't he go with him?


Because Sagats ass and Zoning is dead in this game. Daigo play's footsie based characters.

Somone has posted leaked changes for Sagat on SRK. I've copied the post. Not sure if 100% legit or not but he does have a source. I'd say those are pretty good changes although I'd still have liked the damage changed on TK so the second hit did more than the first, it's still a fairly ass special. Super buff is completely pointless, I never understand why they buff supers.

According to combofiend there, Sagat gets :

* Stand short special cancellable on second hit
* U1 gets full damage in corner
* EX TK 0 frames on block (1 frame nerf)
* Super gets full damage off juggle

If Akuma and Cammy get slight tweaks these changes will make Sagat powerful again and a legit pick IMO.

Damn doesn't the U1 buff, buff him a ton? Not sure how good stand short special cancellable on second hit is. I guess that gives him a really good buffer button, but does that mean the 1st hit has to connect too for the cancel? I can't really remember if a further spaced st.lk can only hit once. Confusing as he has both a cl.lk and a far.lk and according to app, both have 2 hits in it.

Yay for TK nerf lol.

Na , the Ultra buff just makes a stupid oversight right. Every other character get's full ultra or juggles in the corner. Sagat gets half and put INTO the corner. It should have been changed before now.

The lk cancel means he can now cancel with the tip of the foot into Tiger shot (before the nerfed it so it was just the first hit), like Vanilla.

A fairly big buff since that range is Sagat's exact weak spot.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 13, 2013, 11:23:57 PM
Daigo just doesn't rate Seth as a character. In the year the Fuudo won Evo, when Daigo was using Yun, he was asked to give his opinion on which characters were good, and Seth wasn't even on his radar. I also won't forget after that, Poongko virtually obliterated Daigo with Seth at Evo.

Daigo judges characters by his own merit. He doesn't care that everybody else thinks that Seth is an op'ed character. If he himself thinks that Seth is not a good character, he will not use him. Simple as that.

Seems reasonable thanks for clarifying.

@zach
I'm talking about before. Being sponsored and all you think he travel lots of miles jst
To play for the ppl and fun? C'mon now.

Why did you think he went with yun?
I'm jst using diago as an example of my theory as to why he wouldn't use Seth because Seth was op.




Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on May 14, 2013, 11:30:41 AM
Daigo has said before that he like Yun as character personally. Why he switched back to Ryu? Not sure, maybe because it's iconic to associate Daigo and Ryu? Maybe Daigo likes Ryu in 2012? Not sure, but Daigo's enjoyment certainly plays a part in his character choice, it's the same with all of us.

Would you play a character you dislike?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Dr.Hu on May 14, 2013, 12:25:45 PM
Would you play a character you dislike?

VERGIL 8)

Nobody likes Vergil.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on May 14, 2013, 12:38:02 PM
I walked into that one.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 14, 2013, 01:30:45 PM
Daigo just doesn't rate Seth as a character. In the year the Fuudo won Evo, when Daigo was using Yun, he was asked to give his opinion on which characters were good, and Seth wasn't even on his radar. I also won't forget after that, Poongko virtually obliterated Daigo with Seth at Evo.

Daigo judges characters by his own merit. He doesn't care that everybody else thinks that Seth is an op'ed character. If he himself thinks that Seth is not a good character, he will not use him. Simple as that.

Seems reasonable thanks for clarifying.

@zach
I'm talking about before. Being sponsored and all you think he travel lots of miles jst
To play for the ppl and fun? C'mon now.

Why did you think he went with yun?
I'm jst using diago as an example of my theory as to why he wouldn't use Seth because Seth was op.

like Madenka said, Daigo liked Yun as a character, just so happened to be that Yun was op at the time

i think Yun is a cool character and would play him too if i was good
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 14, 2013, 04:19:01 PM
Ryu's been Daigo's main since SF2.

Quite commited, that's a longer relationship than Zach's entire life.  :P
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on May 14, 2013, 04:50:12 PM
Ryu's been Daigo's main since SF2.


I don't know a lot about Daigo's history but didn't he use Akuma in alpha 3, Ken in third strike, Guile + Yun + Ryu in Sf4, Guile + Sagat + Boxer + Ryu in ST...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 14, 2013, 05:48:19 PM
Ryu's been Daigo's main since SF2.

Quite commited, that's a longer relationship than Zach's entire life.  :P

Goddamn
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 14, 2013, 07:13:57 PM
The only reason he picked Yun was because he was the best character by miles. He wanted to win the cash. It's about as simple as that.

No bad matches, rush down orientated version, everyone playing powerhouse characters. It would have been stupid to enter with Ryu unless he felt really strongly about a certain match up.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on May 15, 2013, 12:56:11 AM
The only reason he picked Yun was because he was the best character by miles. He wanted to win the cash. It's about as simple as that.

No bad matches, rush down orientated version, everyone playing powerhouse characters. It would have been stupid to enter with Ryu unless he felt really strongly about a certain match up.
Naaaw Madenkas right, Daigo actually does like Yun as a character. He stated this himself.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 15, 2013, 01:43:53 AM
Makes sense. Yun's the coolest character in the game.

"What a waste of time. I want those 10 minutes back."

"Time to hit the streets, later loser."
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 15, 2013, 10:59:37 AM
The only reason he picked Yun was because he was the best character by miles. He wanted to win the cash. It's about as simple as that.

No bad matches, rush down orientated version, everyone playing powerhouse characters. It would have been stupid to enter with Ryu unless he felt really strongly about a certain match up.
Naaaw Madenkas right, Daigo actually does like Yun as a character. He stated this himself.

Yeah I know he liked him but I remember him coming out at the time and saying something like " now people will see diago with the strongest character"

He would not have picked him if he was average because why is he not picking him now?

Look for the quote, it'll be on the net somewhere. I'm sure it was a mix of both reasons probably. It's like all the yang players who puffed their chest out and said they would keep playing him........2 months later.....welcome to the yang graveyard.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 16, 2013, 12:16:15 AM
Makes sense. Yun's the coolest character in the game.

"What a waste of time. I want those 10 minutes back."

"Time to hit the streets, later loser."

uhhhh, i think its pretty universally known that cody is the coolest character in any game ever
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on May 16, 2013, 12:38:32 AM
I can't stand Cody. Even his moves are annoying  :PjSalt:
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 16, 2013, 12:54:45 AM
uhhhh, i think its pretty universally known that Yun is the coolest character in any game ever

Fixed. And yes, you are right. It is universally known that Yun's the coolest character in any game ever.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 16, 2013, 12:56:48 AM
I can't stand Cody. Even his moves are annoying  :PjSalt:

im just going to pretend a rose player didnt just say that cody was annoying

uhhhh, i think its pretty universally known that Yun is the coolest character in any game ever

Fixed. And yes, you are right. It is universally known that Yun's the coolest character in any game ever.



come on soji, we have had this conversation before.. cody, as a prisoner, escapes prison whenever he wants, and when he gets bored, just goes back

while yun rides a skateboard and says things really fast
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: sojiokitau on May 16, 2013, 01:00:32 AM
LOL. When you put it that way, Cody is cooler.

But Yun looks cooler. Yun invented the slightly angled baseball cap look that is still a trend to this day.

Actually for 2013 AE they should give every character a dive kick IMO.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 16, 2013, 02:38:37 AM
E Honda is the coolest character. Only because I picked him 22 years ago in my first arcade experience.....

The simple brain of a child.....
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 16, 2013, 03:07:24 AM
LOL. When you put it that way, Cody is cooler.

But Yun looks cooler. Yun invented the slightly angled baseball cap look that is still a trend to this day.

Actually for 2013 AE they should give every character a dive kick IMO.

ya give seth rufus' dive kick but nerf his health to 500
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on May 16, 2013, 10:51:16 AM
Rose annoying? You must hate breasts. It's the only explanation.

also, for 2013 AE they should give every character a slightly angled baseball cap
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 16, 2013, 12:57:11 PM
im an 18 year old straight guy, breasts are like twin goddesses to me
thats one thing i do appreciate about rose
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 16, 2013, 12:59:04 PM
im an 18 year old guy

That's irrelevant to your like/dislike of breasts.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 16, 2013, 05:10:03 PM
im an 18 year old straight guy

That's irrelevant to your like/dislike of breasts.

even if i didnt, im an 18 year old guy, i would pretend i liked breasts ;)

but you are right so i fixed it for you  :)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 16, 2013, 06:02:03 PM
Well now we're all on the same page  ;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 16, 2013, 06:20:08 PM
Rose is the least shaggable chick. She looks like a hooker from the wild west and her special move involves a giant scarf.

Not sure about Juri either. Robot eye's an all that jazz.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on May 16, 2013, 06:22:44 PM
She looks like a hooker from the wild west and her special move involves a giant scarf.

Shout outs to Cabramatta.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on May 16, 2013, 08:35:48 PM
Rose is the least shaggable chick. She looks like a hooker from the wild west and her special move involves a giant scarf.

Not sure about Juri either. Robot eye's an all that jazz.
Juri is really flexible though. ;)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 16, 2013, 09:09:26 PM
Rose is the least shaggable chick. She looks like a hooker from the wild west and her special move involves a giant scarf.

Not sure about Juri either. Robot eye's an all that jazz.
Juri is really flexible though. ;)

True, and she's alway's got that tongue out.

Not sure about Makoto now that I think about it. Bit manly.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on May 16, 2013, 10:29:38 PM
Not sure about Makoto now that I think about it. Bit manly.

You know what they say about women with big feet  :P
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 16, 2013, 11:36:19 PM
Leona is the most attractive woman in fighting game history

there is just something about a woman who has unnaturally blue, spiky hair that gets to me <3
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 17, 2013, 09:35:27 AM
Leona is the most attractive woman in fighting game history

there is just something about a woman who has unnaturally blue, spiky hair that gets to me <3


I dunno, there are some kick ass (read jizz worthy) Cammy mods on Youtube for PC.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 17, 2013, 10:21:47 AM
Leona is the most attractive woman in fighting game history

there is just something about a woman who has unnaturally blue, spiky hair that gets to me <3

Chun-li will always be my fav
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on May 17, 2013, 10:57:23 AM
Lol this dicussion.

I used to play DOA4 - all about the jiggles...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 17, 2013, 03:54:10 PM
Leona is the most attractive woman in fighting game history

there is just something about a woman who has unnaturally blue, spiky hair that gets to me <3

Chun-li will always be my fav


Chun would definitely get a Tiger shot.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: fkuspencer on May 18, 2013, 10:51:15 PM
there is just something about a woman who has unnaturally blue, spiky hair that gets to me <3

(http://i.imgur.com/cVxeikM.jpg)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on May 19, 2013, 08:31:48 PM
there is just something about a woman who has unnaturally blue, spiky hair that gets to me <3

(http://i.imgur.com/cVxeikM.jpg)

Holy mother of... are those Twinkies?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on May 22, 2013, 11:19:14 AM
http://beastnote.blogspot.com.br/2013/05/umehara-ssf4ae2013-talkshow-taito-station-shinjuku-mg.html

"It's revealed in Daigo Umehara's Battle Tour 2013 event in Fukuoka that he will have a talk show at Taito Station Shinjuku Minami-guchi branch on June 15.

At the event, Umehara, Bon-chan, Kazunoko, Fuudo will come to talk about things such as the changes in SSF4AE Version 2013."
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 22, 2013, 12:10:06 PM
http://beastnote.blogspot.com.br/2013/05/umehara-ssf4ae2013-talkshow-taito-station-shinjuku-mg.html

"It's revealed in Daigo Umehara's Battle Tour 2013 event in Fukuoka that he will have a talk show at Taito Station Shinjuku Minami-guchi branch on June 15.

At the event, Umehara, Bon-chan, Kazunoko, Fuudo will come to talk about things such as the changes in SSF4AE Version 2013."

Not sure if that reads - "they know about the changes and will tell you" or "They will give input and thoughts on possible changes"
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on May 22, 2013, 04:32:27 PM
Not sure if that reads - "they know about the changes and will tell you" or "They will give input and thoughts on possible changes"

The latter. Speculative bullshit just like the rest of us scrubs. I've been entertained by a lot of the 'balance' ideas people have had insofar, so this ought to be interesting.

For a man who dubbed Ryu's new 1 hit, non-FADC-able 160 dmg hp DP change going into 2012 as "useless" he sure does use it a lot.

Point being, even good players have odd perspectives when it comes to interpreting and speculating changes for the game. Probably the most sensible I heard was from Tokido when 2012's changes were announced and the Akuma players started shedding tears. He responded quite simply with "The changes aren't bad. Akuma will be fine."

And he was.

:D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on May 22, 2013, 06:03:41 PM
Like how they all thought Sagat would be top tier....  :P

Interested to see Fuudo's comments on Fei. I know Daigo has already said Fei is fine (waves pom poms).

Knowing Bonchan he'll say Sagat is ok and I am a god. We really need shitty second rate players to give thoughts...  8)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: kingtua on May 23, 2013, 10:47:08 AM
Leona is the most attractive woman in fighting game history

there is just something about a woman who has unnaturally blue, spiky hair that gets to me <3

Chun-li will always be my fav


Chun would definitely get a Tiger shot.

Lol she sure does
Tiger destruction at the best
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 14, 2013, 06:11:36 AM
New characters: Rolento, Elena, Hugo, and Poison  and a brand new character. Wonder what type of character they will be adding. 6 new stages too.

http://shoryuken.com/2013/07/13/rolento-elena-hugo-poison-heading-to-street-fighter-iv-in-update-fifth-character-never-seen-before/
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Vladan on July 14, 2013, 10:25:19 AM
New characters: Rolento, Elena, Hugo, and Poison  and a brand new character. Wonder what type of character they will be adding. 6 new stages too.

http://shoryuken.com/2013/07/13/rolento-elena-hugo-poison-heading-to-street-fighter-iv-in-update-fifth-character-never-seen-before/

Nice, thanks Heavy. I guess we all saw this coming, a predictable update, but! probably the one we all wanted right
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 14, 2013, 10:29:19 AM
I just hope they dont put another mole (super bitch character) bring back that man shit!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on July 14, 2013, 11:13:13 AM
I'm really on the fence about new characters.. I mean new matchups to learn and new characters that have a high chance of bringing new update/balance issues. I just pray they do them right and don't add more gimmick shenanigan bullshit to the game and keep them fundamental based. (eg. not another viper or seth or fuerte etc)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on July 14, 2013, 11:21:10 AM
I just hope they dont put another mole (super bitch character) bring back that man shit!

Poison and Elena new top tier  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on July 14, 2013, 11:34:25 AM
I just hope they dont put another mole (super bitch character)

Chun Li.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: norri on July 14, 2013, 03:23:16 PM
New characters and new stages??  Fucking sick!  .. Not til 2014 though, that's a bit of a shame..  Thought from the look of the art, Rolento might be for me, but having seen a bit of sfxt footage of him, no thank you.  He looks lame.  Mystery 5th character, gimme.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: fkuspencer on July 14, 2013, 10:49:59 PM
Holy fuck, dat copypasta is strong in here. $5 on Asura for 5th character. Gimme that SFIV: Ctrl+V edition. LETS GOOOOOO

CAPCOM MY UDDERS ARE YOURSSSSS
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 14, 2013, 11:45:35 PM
I just hope they dont put another mole (super bitch character)

Chun Li.
The buffs that bitch n rose received, sagat better get that light kick and glitch fix. I'm just saying we could have murder charges to deal with.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on July 14, 2013, 11:52:05 PM
Would have been just content with just a balance update, so the reveals are a bonus so far as I can see. Hope the 5th character will actually fit street fighter though. I generally hate the idea of third party characters (like Scorpion in Injustice).

Meanwhile, liking the Yang, Chun and Dudley buffs.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Niah on July 15, 2013, 01:28:47 AM
cool, Vega still has no anti airs...what is this?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on July 15, 2013, 02:01:31 AM
Someone asked Ono if Asura was the fifth character, Ono said no. Take that however you want since it's coming from Ono.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Bungle on July 15, 2013, 07:28:52 AM
For me. it seams like the character is obviously Hagar, he is already in marvel, and every other final fight character has made the move to sf4, Guy, Cody and now Posion and Hugo. Ausra is the other obvious choice, but if he had been ruled out it seems like we'll be seeing Hagar next year.

Only problem is, he is very! similar to Zangeif, being the character Geif is based off so they may be reluctant to include him.
Then again, this will probably make him easier to import into the game, and having characters with similar moves has never stoped them before (the shoto's for example)

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Alexk on July 15, 2013, 01:17:36 PM
cool, Vega still has no anti airs...what is this?

yeah thats what i was waiting to hear :/
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on July 15, 2013, 01:38:15 PM


Probably best to rename this thread to Ultra Street Fighter IV now.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Bungle on July 15, 2013, 02:24:01 PM
http://evilgeniuses.gg/capcom-details-sfiv-update-a-whole-new-game/

definatly worth a read, some thing that stood out for me was

"Matt Dahlgren: The (new) stages are actually the same ones you saw in SF x T. If you played them in that game, then they’ll look familiar to you."

which is a little disappointing, i was hoping for brand new stages.
Still very exiting!
I wonder if time zone will import a cab...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on July 15, 2013, 03:46:21 PM
In that Ultra Street Fighter IV clip, Elena looks like female Dhalsim. No lie.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on July 15, 2013, 03:58:54 PM
I don't see why they have to sit on the balance update til the whole new game is ready in 2014.. Surely they could release the balance changes in 2013 and have time to tweak the balance further if required for 2014 Ultra edition?

Also no mention of unblockables being killed yet?

I'm hopeful though..

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 15, 2013, 04:01:47 PM
To be honest my first impressions -

1) EVO 2013 showed there's almost nothing wrong with the current edition and it's balance bar a tiny amount slight changes that could possibly be done to Akuma and Cammy.

2) Ultra edition looks like a cluster fuck of mish mashed stuff that's been brought together to make money.

I'll give it time though.

On a side not the SFXT characters move and act like they are not from the same game as opposed to seamlessly blending in with the current cast although I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since it's early. 

The fact that it'll be launched into 2014 probably guarantee's a good portion of the online scene in Australia will have already switched consoles to next gen.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 15, 2013, 04:06:35 PM
So the video shows Dhalsim now has a focus breaking limb???

Could they make that character any more annoying? That's a fairly big buff.

This quote is a bit scary -

"It’s not just top-level play we’re looking at when we’re rebalancing, though. It’s the casual player that makes up a far larger percentage of the game’s total player base"
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on July 15, 2013, 04:19:28 PM
Also no mention of unblockables being killed yet?

I'm hopeful though..
It was discussed during the panel that the issue will be addressed. It's considered one of the focus points of the update.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on July 15, 2013, 04:54:01 PM
My bad, just saw it then :)

I'm with Solar, too many new elements is a recipe for something getting fucked up. Hope it all works out.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on July 15, 2013, 06:43:17 PM
So the video shows Dhalsim now has a focus breaking limb???

Could they make that character any more annoying? That's a fairly big buff.

This quote is a bit scary -

"It’s not just top-level play we’re looking at when we’re rebalancing, though. It’s the casual player that makes up a far larger percentage of the game’s total player base"

Well we already have a 5f reversal window and auto guard, I don't see how much more can be catered to the casual player. More ultra damage? I dunno... I really don't like the idea of new characters this late into the series, but then again we had the AE drop and that ended up alright.

Rebalancing around the casual player --> 15f reversal windows, auto guard on wakeup, auto tech, even more lenient inputs? 3 button ultras?

I thought SFxT already catered for casuals.

Still looking forward to what ends up happening. Alex or Urien for 5th character hopefully.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: vexinglion on July 16, 2013, 07:52:22 AM

Rebalancing around the casual player --> 15f reversal windows, auto guard on wakeup, auto tech, even more lenient inputs? 3 button ultras?


Say what!?!? That sounds like way too much cotton wool. Part of the beauty of watching high level play is watching equally high level defence and won't auto guard on wakeup make cross ups redundant? It loses ambiguity. If they do implement this surely they can implement a disable option for players that want to get their hands dirty?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on July 16, 2013, 08:32:15 AM
He wasn't being serious.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on July 16, 2013, 02:37:31 PM
Still looking forward to what ends up happening. Alex or Urien for 5th character hopefully.

Not happening, they said this character has never been in a sf game before
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: vexinglion on July 16, 2013, 03:02:29 PM
Good.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: thirdeye (Ikuya) on July 16, 2013, 05:39:30 PM
inside of Q. only some info seems show it is Q.  (but totally defernt move from Q. then it can be new character at SF)
then finally SF4 can connect story line to SF3 lol
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Alexk on July 16, 2013, 06:07:07 PM
Asura. Copied and pasted like the rest of the new cast.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 16, 2013, 08:01:50 PM
I think I read somewhere Ono discounted Asura.

I think it'll be one of two things.

1) Hagger - Final fight set complete, already got the character, would fit the mould of "fuck it lets use what we've already got"

2) New character created by meshing existing character models and moves (ala Seth) most likely based off SFxT. It could even be a character that's been developed from another edition but not put in.

They've showed they are putting no creative elements into the Ultra edition (stages are SFxT too) so you can bet your ass it's something somewhere we've already got.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: omfg-gg on July 17, 2013, 12:04:18 AM
5th Character = Sheng Long?

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on July 17, 2013, 12:15:38 AM
Ono tweeted in reply to someone asking if Asura was the 5th confirming Asura is not the 5th character.
Gouken is Shen Long. :|
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on July 17, 2013, 10:11:19 AM
Will probably be some copy/paste job like the other 4 characters and stages are.

Maybe some Marvel 3 character.

I get Capcom is lazy, but holy hell...

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 beta

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on July 17, 2013, 10:52:18 AM
less to do with lazy, all to do with money.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 17, 2013, 02:56:49 PM
To be honest my first impressions -

1) EVO 2013 showed there's almost nothing wrong with the current edition and it's balance bar a tiny amount slight changes that could possibly be done to Akuma and Cammy.


I don't think it's wise to base a view on balance from 1 tournament. Sakura for instance she should be nerfed in some way. The characters jump hp is far too good. Not to mention she has a hard attack 3 frame punish lol.  There's more then akuma and cammy. Seth is stupid as well. The thing is people complain about akuma however akuma out of the top tiers takes the most skill to play to full potential you can't learn akuma quickly and do well either.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on July 17, 2013, 03:06:59 PM
The thing is people complain about akuma however akuma out of the top tiers takes the most skill to play to full potential you can't learn akuma quickly and do well either.

Same can be said about Viper and she got nerfed to bits in AE. Ditto with Ibuki in the upcoming version. I don't think a characters learning curve is a good measuring stick to balancing a game. At the top level, every character should be judged on their matchup merits.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 17, 2013, 03:14:24 PM
I agree and I wasn't implying that a harder character to use shouldn't be nerfed. I just believe easy top tiers are worse because everybody and his dog abuses it. Lets for instance say you have two s rank characters. One is easy to use and one is difficult to use. Which one do you think is going to break the game more? The character that is easier to use will also be more popular and make it easier for worse players to place higher then their actual skill level.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on July 17, 2013, 05:11:56 PM
I agree and I wasn't implying that a harder character to use shouldn't be nerfed. I just believe easy top tiers are worse because everybody and his dog abuses it. Lets for instance say you have two s rank characters. One is easy to use and one is difficult to use. Which one do you think is going to break the game more? The character that is easier to use will also be more popular and make it easier for worse players to place higher then their actual skill level.

On the money mate. Completely understand your standpoint  :) Although I still would like to see a nerf to Akuma's air fireballs   ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 18, 2013, 05:19:10 AM
Haha to be honest. I think the nerf akuma needs is the sweep mainly. The Fact he can abuse it with little consequence is op. They should do two things to it. 1) recovery should be worse especially if he whiffs 2) shouldn't be able to cancel demon from it. Crouching medium kick is more then enough for that. To me that would make him a fair character. Nerfing his air fireball is not something i would agree with there's ways to punish it . Chun can ultra it (hard but doable )
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Rushdown Turtle on July 18, 2013, 12:52:38 PM
I think Akuma is pretty fair as is too. I think the extra recovery only on whiffed sweep would be good and perhaps slightly less walkspeed. That would balance out his footsies power with say Ryu. I think air fireball is absolutely fine personally, it's similar to Sagat's fireball wall, it's always possible to work your way past it as long as you're careful and use the right tools.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on July 18, 2013, 02:26:01 PM
I still would like to see a nerf to Akuma's air fireballs   ;D

Change Chun's c.lk to 4f and we've got a deal. Zing.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 18, 2013, 02:37:24 PM
Sensible changes are out the window so far. I fully expect Akuma to get something that'll actually make him better the way things are going.

There's word that all character wake up timings are getting changed individually. I'm not even sure what to think of that.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: X-fade on July 18, 2013, 04:51:25 PM
Go Hibiki 5th character?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 19, 2013, 04:43:00 AM
I think Akuma is pretty fair as is too. I think the extra recovery only on whiffed sweep would be good and perhaps slightly less walkspeed. That would balance out his footsies power with say Ryu. I think air fireball is absolutely fine personally, it's similar to Sagat's fireball wall, it's always possible to work your way past it as long as you're careful and use the right tools.

Akumas fireballs are better then sagats. Sagats can be jumped more often then akumas can. Not to mention akumas air fireballs can be used at point blank range effectively. On top of that akumas fireballs can be used offensively. I use both characters in the zoning game at a good level and akumas fireballs are better if i wasn't a lazy bastard nowadays and had better execution when it comes to setups and o.s i would pick akuma in a heartbeat. You can play him defensively. Just look at how well tokido fireballed infiltration in the mirror there's no way in hell sagat would get away with fireballing that much against any character apart from zangief and even then if gief has good reactions perhaps not. I still however dont believe his fireball should be nerfed. The thing that makes akuma break the game is his sweep period. I've fought top level akuma since vanilla i know the character nearly inside out. From watching so much using so much and vsing so much. Trust me the walk speed is good but that would ruin his playstyle. It's just the sweep. If he couldn't cancel it and throw it out for free without any accuracy he would be way fairer and much easier to walk down. You would also able to use focus attack to better effect . Your chuns would be licking their lips at that haha.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: bort on July 19, 2013, 09:37:49 AM
god yes, that sweep needs to be nerfed.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Glassy123 on July 19, 2013, 05:56:49 PM
They should re-do the Ultra animation for Akuma's U2, still and will always look silly to me, just the way he lands, haha

My pick is Sarai (Ibukis best friend) as her model is in sfxt, and technically shes never fought in a fighting game b4

that or its Asura and Ono trolls everyone again

ps: dont nerf gen, capcom plz  :BibleThump:
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on July 19, 2013, 06:32:47 PM
They should re-do the Ultra animation for Akuma's U2, still and will always look silly to me, just the way he lands, haha

My pick is Sarai (Ibukis best friend) as her model is in sfxt, and technically shes never fought in a fighting game b4

that or its Asura and Ono trolls everyone again

ps: dont nerf gen, capcom plz  :BibleThump:

Won Evo, needs nerf.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 20, 2013, 02:52:57 AM
They should re-do the Ultra animation for Akuma's U2, still and will always look silly to me, just the way he lands, haha

My pick is Sarai (Ibukis best friend) as her model is in sfxt, and technically shes never fought in a fighting game b4

that or its Asura and Ono trolls everyone again

ps: dont nerf gen, capcom plz  :BibleThump:

Won Evo, needs nerf.


He's won more then evo lol. Something needs to be given to gen in order to take away his paralyzing ground game once he has super. Pretty much once gen has super ur fucked lol. He's actually a very strong character. Good footsies. good mixups. High damage capacity good an air options. Great supers and ultras. I wouldn't mess with him much though.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 20, 2013, 10:50:09 AM
I say just lower the damage slightly on the Super. No point fucking with Gen. Nobody every complained about Gen.


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: in4war on July 20, 2013, 11:19:37 AM
KEN
-Faster walk speed.
-Crouching Hard Kick has a shorter start up.
-Standing Light Punch combos into Crouching Hard Kick now.
-Ultra 1 does more damage when it connections without the full animation playing.

WOW ken is looking good for 2013 :) thats if they dont change him before release.

Now waiting for evil ryu, what ryu needs

- his HK sweep to start up quicker and to recover quicker on block.

- his teleport to be further like akumas

that is all for evil ryu.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 20, 2013, 12:42:18 PM
I say just lower the damage slightly on the Super. No point fucking with Gen. Nobody every complained about Gen.

Give it time haha.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Glassy123 on July 20, 2013, 11:11:58 PM
I like how everyone complains about him now, haha

its not so much the super they need to nerf, the actual damage comes from the geriko into hard knock down mixup afterwards, that and his hands only count as 1 hit, and thus dsn't scale the c.mp xx hands xx super combo

I do think his 2 (I think?) frame aa super is a little silly though, haha
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 21, 2013, 11:00:44 AM
If good players aren't using him and the fact that he has a lot to learn due to stances of coarse his potential was not going to be found for a while. Hardly anybody complained about cammy in super or sakura yet the fact is they could do certain shit as early as vanilla ppl just didn't know. People complain about the characters that dominate at the time. Just the way it goes.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Spoony on July 21, 2013, 01:45:16 PM
So, is it bad form to complain about the way my character's being buffed?

Because, yeah, those are huge buffs, and obviously they're going to help a lot of matchups, but they're not addressing what I consider to be the main problems, and they're going help matchups which aren't her bad matchups anyway.

Yes, Chun Li has trouble with focus attacks, possibly too much, particularly in the Fei matchup (and it's a pain in the butt in the Dudley & E.Ryu matchups as well), but EX HS breakin armour doesn't fix that at all, it just lets you throw out YOLO EX HS's against Ryu, Sagat, and the mirror matchup, making her footsies more random, I doesn't let her break armour on reaction, or give her a tool to pressure without worrying about armour (since it's -1 on block). In particular it will make the mirror match even fucking stupider than it already is, and it's already pretty damn stupid.

Yes, Chun Li has crappy anti-airs, but her difficulty anti-airing Honda, Gief and Bison is what prevents those matchups from being in her favour, without that, Honda and Gief simply can't get in. Her true anti-air weakness is against close range hopkick style attacks, such as Rufus, Viper, and possibly Adon (still learning that matchup). Giving her back full strength df.lk heavily helps even matchups, and doesn't significantly help her bad matchups. In fact it's going to be noticeably better than it was in Super, both because of an apparent across the board damage increase which will likely include ex legs, and because due to the 2012 changes, df.lk, ex.legs, ex.sbk is going to be easier to connect (which currently does 250ish damage, but only works at ranges df.lk is'n't currently a good anti-air). It's just being included because Chun Li players are too lazy to watch their spacing correctly.

And the fireball knockdown, okay, sure, that's cool, I like it, nice tool to play with, but I don't like the mindset behind it, Combofiend said she needs "more opportunities to knockdown" which I don't find is the case at all. She has not just short into ex legs, but far.mp ex legs, a huge range on her sweep, df.lk as an anti-air, b.mk target combo, j.fp > j.fp as as a predictive anti-air, anti-air kikouken, and probably other stuff I've forgotten. Her problem is that she can't do shit with those knockdowns, she can't safely apply pressure against people with 3 frame uppercuts, like Akuma or Ibuki, or even Ryu can, which is totally fine, but that means to make it worth taking the risk to attack on knockdown, her mixups have to be quite good, and they just aren't, she doesn't have a real high low, or a real left-right, or a command throw, or anything that's particularly good against crouch tech, and while that's the case, extra knockdown opportunities aren't a huge deal.

Not that I really blame CAPCOM for this, I said all this on Unity when we were asked about it, that what I think she needs is better hopkick defense, and better ability to force mistakes (either through better crouch tech crush, or better options to burn meter for damage off of her footsies, or an Ultra that can actually be used offensively), but I got completely drowned out.

Well, whatever, If she does get a decent damage increase on top of the hp increase and df.lk, she's probably going to crush well over half the mid-tier, I'll just need to work on my alt for her bad matchups.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on July 21, 2013, 02:39:25 PM
I like how everyone complains about him now, haha

its not so much the super they need to nerf, the actual damage comes from the geriko into hard knock down mixup afterwards, that and his hands only count as 1 hit, and thus dsn't scale the c.mp xx hands xx super combo

I do think his 2 (I think?) frame aa super is a little silly though, haha

1 frame
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on July 21, 2013, 02:51:24 PM
So, is it bad form to complain about the way my character's being buffed?

Because, yeah, those are huge buffs, and obviously they're going to help a lot of matchups, but they're not addressing what I consider to be the main problems, and they're going help matchups which aren't her bad matchups anyway.

Yes, Chun Li has trouble with focus attacks, possibly too much, particularly in the Fei matchup (and it's a pain in the butt in the Dudley & E.Ryu matchups as well), but EX HS breakin armour doesn't fix that at all, it just lets you throw out YOLO EX HS's against Ryu, Sagat, and the mirror matchup, making her footsies more random, I doesn't let her break armour on reaction, or give her a tool to pressure without worrying about armour (since it's -1 on block). In particular it will make the mirror match even fucking stupider than it already is, and it's already pretty damn stupid.

Yes, Chun Li has crappy anti-airs, but her difficulty anti-airing Honda, Gief and Bison is what prevents those matchups from being in her favour, without that, Honda and Gief simply can't get in. Her true anti-air weakness is against close range hopkick style attacks, such as Rufus, Viper, and possibly Adon (still learning that matchup). Giving her back full strength df.lk heavily helps even matchups, and doesn't significantly help her bad matchups. In fact it's going to be noticeably better than it was in Super, both because of an apparent across the board damage increase which will likely include ex legs, and because due to the 2012 changes, df.lk, ex.legs, ex.sbk is going to be easier to connect (which currently does 250ish damage, but only works at ranges df.lk is'n't currently a good anti-air). It's just being included because Chun Li players are too lazy to watch their spacing correctly.

And the fireball knockdown, okay, sure, that's cool, I like it, nice tool to play with, but I don't like the mindset behind it, Combofiend said she needs "more opportunities to knockdown" which I don't find is the case at all. She has not just short into ex legs, but far.mp ex legs, a huge range on her sweep, df.lk as an anti-air, b.mk target combo, j.fp > j.fp as as a predictive anti-air, anti-air kikouken, and probably other stuff I've forgotten. Her problem is that she can't do shit with those knockdowns, she can't safely apply pressure against people with 3 frame uppercuts, like Akuma or Ibuki, or even Ryu can, which is totally fine, but that means to make it worth taking the risk to attack on knockdown, her mixups have to be quite good, and they just aren't, she doesn't have a real high low, or a real left-right, or a command throw, or anything that's particularly good against crouch tech, and while that's the case, extra knockdown opportunities aren't a huge deal.

Not that I really blame CAPCOM for this, I said all this on Unity when we were asked about it, that what I think she needs is better hopkick defense, and better ability to force mistakes (either through better crouch tech crush, or better options to burn meter for damage off of her footsies, or an Ultra that can actually be used offensively), but I got completely drowned out.

Well, whatever, If she does get a decent damage increase on top of the hp increase and df.lk, she's probably going to crush well over half the mid-tier, I'll just need to work on my alt for her bad matchups.

Whilst its true that they haven't really addressed the main issues from her bad matchups currently I would at least wait until we see what kind of nerfs or buffs her bad matchups are getting. IMO Chun probably doesn't even need buffs if we see some of the expected nerfs to some of the characters she struggles against. That said, I'll take any buffs that comes Chun's way :D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 21, 2013, 03:08:46 PM
If good players aren't using him and the fact that he has a lot to learn due to stances of coarse his potential was not going to be found for a while. Hardly anybody complained about cammy in super or sakura yet the fact is they could do certain shit as early as vanilla ppl just didn't know. People complain about the characters that dominate at the time. Just the way it goes.

Gen is not really dominating though. Just Xian.

It's a bit different from the jokers that said the same thing about infiltration and Akuma because everyone knew that character was horse shit even before he won a thing.

I still think the general feeling among knowledgable SF fans is that Gens ok and that's just what happens when you get a bloke that can play a character with good tools and set ups to his full potential.

What it does show is how glaringly obvious it is that you do need ambiguous set ups to win at high level in this version.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 21, 2013, 08:03:25 PM
If good players aren't using him and the fact that he has a lot to learn due to stances of coarse his potential was not going to be found for a while. Hardly anybody complained about cammy in super or sakura yet the fact is they could do certain shit as early as vanilla ppl just didn't know. People complain about the characters that dominate at the time. Just the way it goes.

Gen is not really dominating though. Just Xian.

It's a bit different from the jokers that said the same thing about infiltration and Akuma because everyone knew that character was horse shit even before he won a thing.

I still think the general feeling among knowledgable SF fans is that Gens ok and that's just what happens when you get a bloke that can play a character with good tools and set ups to his full potential.

What it does show is how glaringly obvious it is that you do need ambiguous set ups to win at high level in this version.

One gen. Amiyu doesn't travel if he did im sure we'd see gen more. Amiyu made top 8 at shadowloo showdown. That guy never travels if he did im sure we'd have a similar situation to tokido and infiltration.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on July 24, 2013, 09:38:02 AM
One gen. Amiyu doesn't travel if he did im sure we'd see gen more. Amiyu made top 8 at shadowloo showdown. That guy never travels if he did im sure we'd have a similar situation to tokido and infiltration.

When was this? I would love a Amiyu vs Xian mirror match.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on July 25, 2013, 08:36:52 AM
Go Hibiki 5th character?

I hope that the 5th character is a totally new character like Dhalsim's wife or Hakan's wife. I will be disappointed if the new character is from Final Fight; there is enough of those characters in SF imo.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 25, 2013, 01:55:24 PM
Go Hibiki 5th character?

I hope that the 5th character is a totally new character like Dhalsim's wife or Hakan's wife. I will be disappointed if the new character is from Final Fight; there is enough of those characters in SF imo.


I think both Dhalsim and Hakan are possibly gay. Stretchy limbs and oil and all that jazz.

A much more likely scenario is Akuma's mum named Akum's Ma or Sakura's brother named Dave.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 25, 2013, 03:00:30 PM
One gen. Amiyu doesn't travel if he did im sure we'd see gen more. Amiyu made top 8 at shadowloo showdown. That guy never travels if he did im sure we'd have a similar situation to tokido and infiltration.

When was this? I would love a Amiyu vs Xian mirror match.


Last shadowloo showdown.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on July 26, 2013, 09:04:47 AM
One gen. Amiyu doesn't travel if he did im sure we'd see gen more. Amiyu made top 8 at shadowloo showdown. That guy never travels if he did im sure we'd have a similar situation to tokido and infiltration.

When was this? I would love a Amiyu vs Xian mirror match.


Last shadowloo showdown.

Damn. Missed it by that much.  :-\
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 26, 2013, 11:44:08 AM
One gen. Amiyu doesn't travel if he did im sure we'd see gen more. Amiyu made top 8 at shadowloo showdown. That guy never travels if he did im sure we'd have a similar situation to tokido and infiltration.

When was this? I would love a Amiyu vs Xian mirror match.

There wasn't a mirror. xian wasn't able to attend . Amiyu was in the top 8 though. The matches are on youtube search for em.
Last shadowloo showdown.

Damn. Missed it by that much.  :-\
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Kyle (The Guile) on July 26, 2013, 01:40:32 PM
So, is it bad form to complain about the way my character's being buffed?


Dude, don't forget, they haven't showed all the changes, nor have they come up with a complete list yet. When that hits you can start thinking about what everything means. The changes so far mostly seem like obvious/heavily requested stuff.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on July 26, 2013, 04:20:40 PM
So, is it bad form to complain about the way my character's being buffed?


Dude, don't forget, they haven't showed all the changes, nor have they come up with a complete list yet. When that hits you can start thinking about what everything means. The changes so far mostly seem like obvious/heavily requested stuff.
I've been looking at changes other characters are getting, so far it all seems like nothing compared to what Makoto is getting...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: VITRIOL on July 29, 2013, 02:13:06 PM
<3 increase in mid-screen damage/reset buff  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on July 29, 2013, 02:40:35 PM
<3 increase in mid-screen damage/reset buff  ;D
Makoto ain't gon' need the corner no more for damage. :D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: VITRIOL on July 29, 2013, 02:49:34 PM
<3 increase in mid-screen damage/reset buff  ;D
Makoto ain't gon' need the corner no more for damage. :D

Also the increased corner carry as well
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 29, 2013, 05:00:26 PM
As if the character isn't scary enough in this version lol
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on July 29, 2013, 05:08:17 PM
<3 increase in mid-screen damage/reset buff  ;D
Makoto ain't gon' need the corner no more for damage. :D

Also the increased corner carry as well
On top of all of this we get the one buff we all wanted too, better cross up MK.
As if the character isn't scary enough in this version lol
Personally I think it's a bit much.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zosla on July 30, 2013, 01:44:49 PM
As if the character isn't scary enough in this version lol

This version 1 combo to reset/mixup = Stun
USF4 1 combo to reset/mixup = GG -.-

oh the Ryu buff... speechless.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 30, 2013, 01:47:23 PM
Well we shall see what happens. If sagat is ass i might try pick an easy top tier im over working hard lol
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zosla on July 30, 2013, 02:53:23 PM
Well we shall see what happens. If sagat is ass i might try pick an easy top tier im over working hard lol
I'm with you on that bandwagon :) when you can simply use a top tier and make life so much easier.
Or you can be like Xian, be the peoples chump and choose Dan!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 30, 2013, 05:51:13 PM
I'm sticking with Fei and Sagat. Even though Fei's getting his nuts waxed and Sagat will probably still have 10 bad matches. Sagat's too much fun to drop.

I'll most likely pick up Yang though, he's one of the most fun characters to play and his buffs look like they are very strong.

I only play casual mostly so a lot of it won't even apply to me in the grand scheme of things. No use getting too worked up about Fei. It will just make it sweeter when I'm still kicking the living fuck out of blokes with my one inch rekka.... 
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 30, 2013, 06:13:16 PM
It's becoming fun when all the characters you face are bad matchups like i do in melbourne non stop. lol
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on July 30, 2013, 07:35:52 PM
Where's the source of the apparent changes?

So far I'm getting them from the Capcom videos at Evo and random Eventhub posts.

I wouldn't mind compiling them here.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 30, 2013, 08:07:57 PM
It's becoming fun when all the characters you face are bad matchups like i do in melbourne non stop. lol

Oh if I were you and played  a lot of tourney's I would have fucked Sagat off in AE.  ;D

Not many true character specialists around though so at least you've stuck to your guns and become the top Sagato. That in itself has to be an achievement.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: norri on July 31, 2013, 02:16:37 PM
I second maxsze's question.  Where are people getting the info on all this nonsense? 

Also, I hope they don't go messing with my man too much.  All I'd want is for cr mk to force stand whether blocking or no, so I can gamble on some tatsus more often for a bit of fun.  But I don't want them to go and make him too attractive to the general deuchebag public.  The less Goukens the better.

Also also, the new characters look disgustingly lame so far...  Just ugly, ugly moves.  May be a bit of fun to have them in there, but yeah, I started with, and fell in love with AE, so I hope they don't go butchering my baby.  And don't go making tough matchups even harder...  Psycho Makoto getting notably buffed?  That's a bit frightening.   Not that she's a nightmarish match-up, but she's still scary.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on July 31, 2013, 03:09:31 PM
I second maxsze's question.  Where are people getting the info on all this nonsense? 

Also, I hope they don't go messing with my man too much.  All I'd want is for cr mk to force stand whether blocking or no, so I can gamble on some tatsus more often for a bit of fun.  But I don't want them to go and make him too attractive to the general deuchebag public.  The less Goukens the better.

Also also, the new characters look disgustingly lame so far...  Just ugly, ugly moves.  May be a bit of fun to have them in there, but yeah, I started with, and fell in love with AE, so I hope they don't go butchering my baby.  And don't go making tough matchups even harder...  Psycho Makoto getting notably buffed?  That's a bit frightening.   Not that she's a nightmarish match-up, but she's still scary.
Gouken loses to Makoto already, and now I can anti-fireball you for freeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on July 31, 2013, 03:20:07 PM
I've been looking at changes other characters are getting, so far it all seems like nothing compared to what Makoto is getting...
What changes is Makoto getting? I haven't seen any for her on Eventhubs/SRK?

I like the idea of 'every character is a threat' but if they buff gimmick vortex characters like Elf and Hakan too much, it'll just be no fun to play.

The whole Vortex Fighter IV needs to go. Shit is lame.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 beta

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on July 31, 2013, 03:22:11 PM
Top sagato in aus isn't saying much hahaha. I need to get top 10 in the world as a sagato then i'd be buttered haha.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on July 31, 2013, 05:26:04 PM
Top sagato in aus isn't saying much hahaha. I need to get top 10 in the world as a sagato then i'd be buttered haha.

Fuck, be hard to name more than 10 Sagats. It's hard to name 10 decent with anyone.

Bonchan, Ryan Hart, RF, Leslie ,Sanford, Mago, Gachikun, AFG, Santarou, Heavy Weapons?

How bout that?  8)

Jiji seems very good from what I've watched. Don't really rate Emblem that much (don't tell him that  ;D) , hate watching Gackt. Plays like a scrub. His Fei is very good though.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: vexinglion on July 31, 2013, 06:51:45 PM
I hope they nerf Yangs fringe.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 01, 2013, 06:11:28 PM
Top sagato in aus isn't saying much hahaha. I need to get top 10 in the world as a sagato then i'd be buttered haha.

Fuck, be hard to name more than 10 Sagats. It's hard to name 10 decent with anyone.

Bonchan, Ryan Hart, RF, Leslie ,Sanford, Mago, Gachikun, AFG, Santarou, Heavy Weapons?

How bout that?  8)

Jiji seems very good from what I've watched. Don't really rate Emblem that much (don't tell him that  ;D) , hate watching Gackt. Plays like a scrub. His Fei is very good though.

You left out a few.  hanamaruki, alioune, sunset. Also akira in his hey day was very good. There might be a couple more i cant think of off the top of my head.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 01, 2013, 07:23:18 PM
Top sagato in aus isn't saying much hahaha. I need to get top 10 in the world as a sagato then i'd be buttered haha.

Fuck, be hard to name more than 10 Sagats. It's hard to name 10 decent with anyone.

Bonchan, Ryan Hart, RF, Leslie ,Sanford, Mago, Gachikun, AFG, Santarou, Heavy Weapons?

How bout that?  8)

Jiji seems very good from what I've watched. Don't really rate Emblem that much (don't tell him that  ;D) , hate watching Gackt. Plays like a scrub. His Fei is very good though.

You left out a few.  hanamaruki, alioune, sunset. Also akira in his hey day was very good. There might be a couple more i cant think of off the top of my head.

Ahh, Sunset. He was awesome , never seen much of him in ages. Yeah Alioune was awesome. Transferred to that bitch though so he get's red carded.  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 02, 2013, 01:01:58 AM
Top sagato in aus isn't saying much hahaha. I need to get top 10 in the world as a sagato then i'd be buttered haha.

Fuck, be hard to name more than 10 Sagats. It's hard to name 10 decent with anyone.

Bonchan, Ryan Hart, RF, Leslie ,Sanford, Mago, Gachikun, AFG, Santarou, Heavy Weapons?

How bout that?  8)

Jiji seems very good from what I've watched. Don't really rate Emblem that much (don't tell him that  ;D) , hate watching Gackt. Plays like a scrub. His Fei is very good though.

You left out a few.  hanamaruki, alioune, sunset. Also akira in his hey day was very good. There might be a couple more i cant think of off the top of my head.

Ahh, Sunset. He was awesome , never seen much of him in ages. Yeah Alioune was awesome. Transferred to that bitch though so he get's red carded.  ;D

Lol .
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on August 03, 2013, 04:34:02 PM
KEN
-Faster walk speed.
-Crouching Hard Kick has a shorter start up.
-Standing Light Punch combos into Crouching Hard Kick now.
-Ultra 1 does more damage when it connections without the full animation playing.

WOW ken is looking good for 2013 :) thats if they dont change him before release.

Now waiting for evil ryu, what ryu needs

- his HK sweep to start up quicker and to recover quicker on block.

- his teleport to be further like akumas

that is all for evil ryu.

Ken will be Top 10 again like in AE, he's a mixup character without a way to get UTK, now he can again like in AE, keeps his AE 2012 buffs that were meant to replace combo into sweep (lol) and gets walkspeed buff to help his footsies.

Btw here's the list of changes that Combofiend said he was sending to Japan for Ken.

Ken

Crouch MK increase active frames.
Sweep be a little better. (let him combo into it from jab).
More damage on Shinryuken (Ultra 1).
Increased walk speed
(but with slight reduction to kara throw).
U2 horizontal range increased on the start.
HP Shoryuken damage increase.

I've bolded the changes that were confirmed @ Evo, pretty sure he'll get a Kara throw range reduction since Combofiend was adamant about that in the video he was discussing this in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJQ0OX1guz0

just before the 40 min mark he talks about Ken, Ryu (don't expect much buffs from Combofiends end lol) and Sakura.

Evil Ryu submissions from Combofiend from another episode of that, no idea which one but someone listed them.

Evil Ryu:

• Lower hit box on F+MK

• Improved cr. HK (possible recovery or start up changes)

• Cr. MK better on block

• LK Tatsu (Hurricane Kick) goes further on start up

• Looking toward better recovery on Axe Kicks

• Better Ultra 2


No one really took that much notices of these episodes when they came out, but considering a lot of changes they mentioned were confirmed, especially Ken and Chun Li...

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 03, 2013, 08:56:28 PM
Ken will rape Sagat with those. Doesn't even matter what buffs he gets.

If you buff the walk speed that directly buffs the Kara throw anyway.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 03, 2013, 09:14:45 PM
Ken will rape Sagat with those. Doesn't even matter what buffs he gets.

If you buff the walk speed that directly buffs the Kara throw anyway.


Ken already does lol.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 03, 2013, 09:39:56 PM
Ken will rape Sagat with those. Doesn't even matter what buffs he gets.

If you buff the walk speed that directly buffs the Kara throw anyway.


Ken already does lol.

That's what I mean, even if Sagat get's his st.lk back kens still going to rape him because he gets better again.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 03, 2013, 11:45:30 PM
This is what i've complained about last 3 versions lol. Sagat needs real buffs
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Goldfish on August 08, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/aug/07/ultra-street-fighter-4-character-change-recap-akuma-cammy-ryu-dudley-rose-oni-and-much-more/

Thoughts?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 08, 2013, 11:25:39 AM
Not much new there.

Fair changes to Akuma although I can't see them drastically effecting his match ups. It just looks like Akuma players won't be able to run as much dumb shit. The core game is still there.

I don't really understand why characters like Cody and Vega look like they get sweet FA and Makoto gets buffed.... :P 

Dhalsim will be a much harder fight now. I can see him having lop sided matches although I guess he's got some himself.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on August 08, 2013, 11:28:04 AM
because makoto was in top 8 evo, if im not mistaken.

and vega is terrible, if you werent already aware.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 08, 2013, 11:32:41 AM
because makoto was in top 8 evo, if im not mistaken.

and vega is terrible, if you werent already aware.

That's what I just said...... :o or are you being sarcastic  ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 12:12:52 PM
because makoto was in top 8 evo, if im not mistaken.

and vega is terrible, if you werent already aware.

That's what I just said...... :o or are you being sarcastic  ;D

Vega isn't terrible. Any top vega player i've spoken to has never said vega is shit he's actually pretty good. He has one main weakness which is wakeup. which a whole bunch have. If the vega fully understands his normals he's one of the hardest characters to actually approach for a lot of the cast. His footsies are godlike.. He has some great tools. Def not top tier but he's at least high mid tier imo.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Bungle on August 08, 2013, 12:17:03 PM
Rose

• EX Soul Spiral has full invincibility now.

Does more damage now on most of her moves.

what does this mean, any specifics?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on August 08, 2013, 12:19:48 PM
his footsies are obviously godlike, especially with the claw, making it alot harder to whiff punish him.
but other than that what does he have?

3f cr.jab? double hitting st.hk?
He does decent damage with only one meter, but besides footsies, you have to play a specific style with vega do to well with him.
Which can be negated by alot of the cast.

See Zeus; one of the best vega players ive ever seen, yet he isnt relevant outside of those weekly tournaments that spooky streams.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 12:20:29 PM
She now has a better reversal (aka get off me tool)

And her damage will be greater.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 12:26:12 PM
his footsies are obviously godlike, especially with the claw, making it alot harder to whiff punish him.
but other than that what does he have?

3f cr.jab? double hitting st.hk?
He does decent damage with only one meter, but besides footsies, you have to play a specific style with vega do to well with him.
Which can be negated by alot of the cast.

See Zeus; one of the best vega players ive ever seen, yet he isnt relevant outside of those weekly tournaments that spooky streams.

Great walk speed and a top notch kara grab. His ultras are good against fireballs. He has a good air grab. His backflip can be good and catch ppl off guard against certain characters he can play a good mindgame on their wakeup with the wall dives. Not only does his footsies work well defensively but he can walk fwd nicely with em. Not saying he's godlike but imo there's a bunch of characters that are good but just are negated by the top tiers. Bison,Vega,Sagat,Cody,Guy,ken, guile and a few others are all good characters with some good tools however the top tier fucks it up. Just my opinion i just wish that tier was emulated across the entire game. Good characters not broken characters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Bungle on August 08, 2013, 12:27:24 PM
She now has a better reversal (aka get off me tool)

And her damage will be greater.

Thanks.
i was just wondering if there was any info on which moves would be getting the increase but nevermind
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 12:33:08 PM
I think it's just overall.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: zachariahdamann on August 08, 2013, 12:37:50 PM
his footsies are obviously godlike, especially with the claw, making it alot harder to whiff punish him.
but other than that what does he have?

3f cr.jab? double hitting st.hk?
He does decent damage with only one meter, but besides footsies, you have to play a specific style with vega do to well with him.
Which can be negated by alot of the cast.

See Zeus; one of the best vega players ive ever seen, yet he isnt relevant outside of those weekly tournaments that spooky streams.

Great walk speed and a top notch kara grab. His ultras are good against fireballs. He has a good air grab. His backflip can be good and catch ppl off guard against certain characters he can play a good mindgame on their wakeup with the wall dives. Not only does his footsies work well defensively but he can walk fwd nicely with em. Not saying he's godlike but imo there's a bunch of characters that are good but just are negated by the top tiers. Bison,Vega,Sagat,Cody,Guy,ken, guile and a few others are all good characters with some good tools however the top tier fucks it up. Just my opinion i just wish that tier was emulated across the entire game. Good characters not broken characters.

Yeah, i guess i can see your point when you put it that way.. maybe im a little biased because i am yet to play a good vega. (no offence niah)
But alot of what you listed would only work against someone who doesnt know the matchup. (Air grab, ultras, wall dive)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 12:49:32 PM
Play pooman . I for one know that matchup pretty damn well due to playing him so much. Air grab is good option vegas ground game is hard to get around so occasionally you try to jump and his ultras are not simple to avoid. In this version they will be even harder. But i agree with the buffs capcom knows he's one change away from being top tier i reckon. Cos originally b4 sf4 vanilla version dropped vega apparently was real broken and they nerfed him because he'd be too strong.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on August 08, 2013, 02:13:20 PM
She now has a better reversal (aka get off me tool)

And her damage will be greater.

Thanks.
i was just wondering if there was any info on which moves would be getting the increase but nevermind

On ex spiral - If it's working as intended, no more character specific buttons that outright beat all her options (Ryu, cl.hk), Seth vacuum cleaner. Makes her anti-fireball game ridiculous, going through fireballs with ex spiral is beyond easy now, but if you did have reactions you could already have ex-reflected (but ex reflect still needed startup to ensure you wouldn't get hit). It can be used well as a footsie or a get in tool when spaced well with very little consequence, might help in Sim matchup (Flying through U1 and half screen approaches). Imagine Cody trying to read a a defensive ex.spiral with cr.hp --> ex rocks, you'll never see a CH into certain death. It's an option that can't ever be CH now.

I would expect her lp to do 30 damage as opposed to 20, seeing as it's in her bnb of cr.lp, cr.lk, cr.mp xx spiral. This should be very good already, seeing as she lands a fair few jabs when playing defensively and confirms off of it every game (also it's a 3f button). Also expecting neutral jump heavy attacks and directional jump fierce to do 100 as opposed to 90 for better punish situations. Uncertain about normal Soul spirals doing slightly more damage at all strengths but I'm finding it very likely that it'll be doing 20-30 more for the ex version. Don't see her ground medium and heavy buttons changing in damage though, they are all very solid. Potentially +10 damage on slide and sweep? That would mean 70 and 100 damage respectively. (Slide's already ridiculous though...)

That's what I'm expecting in terms of damage buffs.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 08, 2013, 02:42:40 PM
The lists have lots of those vague statements. It's like they just want to say something for the sake of saying something.

Dudley - Overall footsie's got better
Ibuki - Better defensive options

blah blah, it's like they are addressing day 1 players or afraid to actually say what the changes are.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on August 08, 2013, 02:53:04 PM
Would like to see more vortex nerfs across the board.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 beta
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 03:41:12 PM
It's probably cos they are still trying to figure it out... But at same time wanna keep peoples attention up
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 08, 2013, 03:53:40 PM
It's probably cos they are still trying to figure it out... But at same time wanna keep peoples attention up


True. It would have been better if they did it like this first IMO -

1) Release balance changes for the existing cast - beta version not confirmed (this seems easy to do since people do it on their own PC's)
2) Release full version with additional game modes and characters.
3) Patch

I think that way the location tests would be more wide spread and people could identify mistakes.

You just know as soon as this get's released it's going to need patched because of some Hugo horse shit or that Poison has 15 unblockables on Ken. 

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on August 08, 2013, 04:09:16 PM
Would like to see more vortex nerfs across the board.

I can't understand the crazy nerf to Ibuki's vortex, yet the vortex from some other characters remain in tact. A bit perplexing to say the least.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 04:38:43 PM
Would like to see more vortex nerfs across the board.

I can't understand the crazy nerf to Ibuki's vortex, yet the vortex from some other characters remain in tact. A bit perplexing to say the least.

Any vortex getting nerfed is butter for me hahaha. Still early days though batman!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: PKMN Catch Em All on August 08, 2013, 04:49:29 PM
Would like to see more vortex nerfs across the board.

I can't understand the crazy nerf to Ibuki's vortex, yet the vortex from some other characters remain in tact. A bit perplexing to say the least.
Yeah I don't understand that either.

Vipers vortex isn't as crazy anymore, and with the longer recovery nerf, it'll be even more manageable. Akuma's doesn't seem to have gotten any changes.

Still early days though. More changes to come.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 beta

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on August 08, 2013, 05:26:15 PM
Quote
I can't understand the crazy nerf to Ibuki's vortex

Ibuki can still hit confirm into spin kicks though if I'm not mistaken.

I'm sure Ibuki players would rather have other options rather than 8 vortex's a round. Especially if you're playing someone that's quite good at blocking her vortex.

Ask your bro... ;D
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Spoony on August 08, 2013, 06:55:08 PM
Would like to see more vortex nerfs across the board.

I can't understand the crazy nerf to Ibuki's vortex, yet the vortex from some other characters remain in tact. A bit perplexing to say the least.

Who else can bread and butter into an unblockable setup midscreen?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Heavy Weapons on August 08, 2013, 07:39:18 PM
Would like to see more vortex nerfs across the board.

I can't understand the crazy nerf to Ibuki's vortex, yet the vortex from some other characters remain in tact. A bit perplexing to say the least.

Who else can bread and butter into an unblockable setup midscreen?

Not SAGAT! Lol sorry i had to haha.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on August 11, 2013, 10:48:57 PM
My feeling is that a lot of these changes are NOT set in stone yet. Here's hoping that achieve the aim of a level playing field where all characters are equally viable. Please?
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Revolver on October 22, 2013, 01:45:40 AM
Not sure how credible Dieminion's information is, but it's fun to think about...(maybe).

Quote
Kevin Landon ‏@Di3mini0n 2m
Hmmm so apparently USF4 is getting a new mechanic called 'Red Focus'. Absorbs multi-hits but uses 2 EX meters. Lvl 2 is unblockable
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on October 22, 2013, 06:58:44 AM
*gives Sim 2 hit normal to break focus*

*gives every character new focus to absorb 2 hits*

 :o
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on October 22, 2013, 10:01:59 AM
Rumor so far is red focus (sounds incredibly dumb)  and both Ultra's select at 66% damage or one for 100%.

Both changes sound retarded to me, especially the red focus. The way I read that you can essentially blow up block strings and double hitting moves for 2 bars which a heap of characters need to keep/zone people out.

Looks like they just want the game to be a super aggressive button mashing experience. 
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on October 22, 2013, 11:31:15 AM
Makoto already has troubles with the focus we have now. :|
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on October 22, 2013, 12:06:56 PM
Blowing two stocks to land a focus attack sounds expensive, though the rumour about it negating focus damage scaling is interesting combined with it being unblockable at level 2. If there's a kernel of truth to this it makes one consider all the focus attacks in the game in terms of how well this would assist them, assuming the red focus (if it exists) uses the same focus animation.

I like the idea of a another delayed wakeup. This ought to mess with setup timings somewhat though if the additional delay is fixed (i.e. you as a player can't determine the wait period) it would motivate people to work on forked setups when its clear an opponent is using the rise delay. Alternatively, if its a delay you can choose manually, that would go a long way towards messing with setup (and unblockable) timings and would be a huge assistance to many characters who feel the pressure on knock-down.

My only concern is that it stands to break match-flow and tempo. Whether this is good or bad is anyone's guess though.

Didn't these guys say there's going to an Ultra reveal coming up soon? I feel they ought to start drip feeding some info before people's interest fades. I'm really keen to see the new system changes and some detail on the new modes more than anything.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on October 22, 2013, 12:34:30 PM
Well I guess they would have to add a third version on KD unless they removed "techable" KD all together. I mean to an extent you can still use the untech waking timing on a techable KD now, to fuck with someones timing if they think you are going to quick rise. Adding a third option may just draw the game out further than it already is (how many Timer scams did we see at Shadowloo....).

What I don't like is that basically all these changes seem to be centered around making a choice from a bunch of variables that you have commit to ( not unlike my Elfuerte complaint in the other thread). If I don't know now that my throw is untechable it pretty much throws safe jumps straight in the bin.

With the Red focus rumor being level 2 crumple again various characters are going to get hurt more than others. Some characters have great focus attacks whilst others suck (if it is the same animation) also characters like Zangief with a Red focus and two Ultra's just sounds like the most insane scenario I can think of.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on October 22, 2013, 09:36:47 PM
Fei Long --> red focus. Half screen unblocks with double armor? Definitely expecting some sort of range tweak. I wonder if it'll cause the spin juggle state if used to hit out of the air? Level 2 focus speed anti air into ultras. Insane.

Shit. Just release the characters and tweak the bullshit tier. Wish they'd fix Blanka, Adon, Sagat, Cammy wakeup timings among others. It just doesn't make sense.

As interesting as it sounds, save the mechanic changes for SFV.

Whilst Ultra is brewing I'll be jamming me some KoF.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on October 23, 2013, 01:14:21 AM
Fei Long --> red focus. Half screen unblocks with double armor? Definitely expecting some sort of range tweak. I wonder if it'll cause the spin juggle state if used to hit out of the air? Level 2 focus speed anti air into ultras. Insane.


True but then I thought of both jab xx rekka and rekka hit confirms = Red focus.

Basically makes 2 in 1 games redundant with two bars, obviously at a cost but 2 bars doesn't seem that big a deal when you've got two Ultra's loaded.

I guess Capcoms theory on balance is to make the options that fucked up that everyone has a chance.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: GodlyEffect on October 23, 2013, 01:41:07 AM
GG characters that rely on multiple hits to break focus, for example Makoto (just gets counter hit on start up of armour breaking moves).
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Revolver on October 25, 2013, 12:29:04 PM
Ultra SF4 new system mechanics (combofiend + beard!)



http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2013/10/24/new-battle-systems-in-ultra-sfiv (http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2013/10/24/new-battle-systems-in-ultra-sfiv)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on October 25, 2013, 01:22:50 PM
That red focus absorbed 3 hits...
Combofiend didn't confirm the execution, meter usage, nor the unblockable thing.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on October 25, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
Cool, it looks very interesting. Here I was thinking we could use focus during blockstun lol
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Crazy FreeRider on October 25, 2013, 03:23:44 PM
no it absorbs ALL hits til its released
it even absorbs ryus super
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Nost. ULTRA on October 25, 2013, 03:27:19 PM

WhackFiend.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on October 25, 2013, 04:22:31 PM
no it absorbs ALL hits til its released
it even absorbs ryus super
Holy Lollercoaster!

Some characters wont be able to deal with that period...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on October 25, 2013, 04:23:20 PM

WhackFiend.

Whether it's Combofiend or still Seth they probably would've put it in regardless. It's still Ayano or whoever he put in charge as battle director (some other Japanese dude) game.

Not like Capcom didn't use to change mechanics up in prior revisions, SFIV revisions have been quite restrained in that aspect. 2nd Impact added ex moves, throw tech and personal actions. 3rd strike added red parry. Alpha 1 to 2 removed chain combos (mostly) and added custom combos and gave everyone two alpha counters instead of one. Alpha 3 added isms and changed how throws were done.

If anything it's long overdue for IV, the only changes in 3 revisions so far has been a second ultra option, and wall bounce options for a couple of characters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Revolver on October 25, 2013, 10:56:13 PM
Quote
Combofiend didn't confirm the execution, meter usage, nor the unblockable thing.

From the Capcom Unity page:

Quote
It uses up Super meter, but can absorb multiple attacks. Since it uses meter you’ll have to put some careful thought into how you use it. As the name implies you can distinguish it by its red glow. Just like the regular Focus Attack, the Red Focus Attack can also be dash canceled.

Our vision is that Dual Ultra Combos will give you more offensive options, while the Red Focus Attack will give you more defensive options.



They haven't said how much meter Red Focus uses but IF it's two meters or more and IF the idea is more for defence maybe Red Focus is to turn random play to your advantage? I'm thinking if opponent throw out random super or ultra you can absorb the hits then gain your own ultra then punish. This way perhaps Red Focus won't be as broken as it sounds. Just my theory!



From Event Hubs:

(http://media.eventhubs.com/images/2013/10/24_usf401.jpg)

(Note the amount of grey health though.)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on October 25, 2013, 11:06:58 PM
Pretty sure it's confirmed for 2 bars. Nobody's going to spend more than that on a focus attack.

I think it's pretty dumb but I'll give it a chance. I think it will just turn into the new scrubby play at low level, like when people mash Dp at combo links now they can just hold red focus and let it crumple safely without whiffing the dp.

At least as far as I can imagine it working. The game's already quite defensive, I'm not sure this helps it any.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on October 26, 2013, 01:38:58 AM
What we need is hops/hyper hops to speed things up (ahh KoF how fun you are). No fadc on blocked reversals.

Yes. That'll do nicely.

I'm interested in how they removed unblockables. Perhaps 1f auto block if it detects a split second walk into any sort of hitbox? Makes for interesting discussion, there might be new techniques where you can wakeup with free guard or something.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Niah on October 26, 2013, 02:06:32 AM
normal focus already rapes vega hard enough....
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on October 26, 2013, 09:25:35 AM
What we need is hops/hyper hops to speed things up (ahh KoF how fun you are). No fadc on blocked reversals.

Yes. That'll do nicely.

I'm interested in how they removed unblockables. Perhaps 1f auto block if it detects a split second walk into any sort of hitbox? Makes for interesting discussion, there might be new techniques where you can wakeup with free guard or something.

Coffee fuelled post.

I recall a while back they mentioned how blocked FADC specials are now at a disadvantage - I'm assuming perhaps -2? I figure it'll translate to FADC blocked stuff being in the interest of the attacker (gambler?) to focus backwards lest they invite themselves to be on the shit end of follow-up pressure or in the case of grapplers, a free command chuck. In short, the gambler no longer gets free advantage no matter what - they'll remain 'safe' somewhat but are forced to defend the follow-up to a 50/50 rather than keep on charging for free.

The 'we removed unblockables' remark was interesting as going by what Rosas said, it sounds like they haven't modified anything globally and have instead taken note of 'known' unblockable setups and targeted those setups specifically. I feel this is a poor approach but perhaps it was their best option to take without mangling things too much. Unblockables aside, I still feel the ambiguous cross-ups in IV are a pain in the ass - this coming from a player who's character has a few. Sakura's j.hp setups and Cammy's dive kick setups on downed opponents being clear examples. Not unblockable per se, but just unclear as to what side one should be blocking to defend.

To put this into perspective, I recall a tourney match recently where Valle went against a run of the mill Cammy player. Valle played clean and honest (he's using Ryu, so that's pretty much a given) but towards the tail end of rounds, he'd get knocked down and from there on he literally got rolled because Alex Valle 'blocked incorrectly.' Here is a player that understands SF and knows full well what a cross-up is, yet how he was supposed to defend was literally reduced to a "shit I dunno - this way perhaps?" defence scenario. Say what you will about 'knowing setups' and all that, but this crap needs to go. Valle's facial reactions between rounds (losses) said it all. It's inconsistent and that sucks.

Maybe I'm romanticising the past, but I remember when a cross-up was a cross-up in SF and it was barren of any ambiguity. You identified what was happening and could intuitively block accordingly on the onus you understood properly defined cross-up attacks. Its a bummer seeing a clearly solid player have their game torn to shreds by this kind of thing - especially when it's obvious who is playing the 'better' and more fundamentally solid game.

I feel its pretty clear what attacks are intended cross-ups - take Ryu's j.mk for example. With this in mind, I feel a revision of the hitboxes of hazy attacks should have their 'behind' hitboxes reduced in size to trim off the small aspect that invokes ambiguity (see Cammy's dive kick). An polar opposite is Yang's improved j.mk in Ultra - clearly they have instead improved how far 'behind' it extends so as to restore it to a clear cross-up attack - as it should be*. I think this (combined with some of fuzzy hurtboxes of many characters) is where both unblockables and ambiguous issues stem from. The problem is altering these properties is that the general feel of many characters might be unfavourable.

* Before 2012 dropped, a bunch of us used the OnoTool to replicate forthcoming changes Capcom announced and Yang's 'cross-up j.mk being nerfed' was one of them. Point being, this is a feasible method of fixing stuff - its simply a hitbox length you can extend or contract. Each hitbox for attacks its literally a set of bounding coordinates calculated from the character model's anchor point aimed to reflect the positioning of limbs during attacking animations.

(http://otersi.com/00_interesting_frames/ken_jlk.png)

(^ This is an example of an attack that is steering close to ambiguity with its cross-up properties. Notice how far 'back' the attack box extends from Ken's logical character centre.)

(http://otersi.com/00_interesting_frames/akuma_demonflip_divekick.png)

(Angled or inclined hitboxes such as Akuma's dive kick can bring about problems when placed sufficiently meaty on an opponent's wakeup. The shallow angled position allows the attack to hit behind him if spaced tightly while his character model slides through to the other side of his opponent landing behind them. Rufus can eat this for example. Cammy's dive kick lacks an angled hitbox, but its hitbox is quite close to her centre combined with her trajectory being angled (enough to sometimes invoke a side switch) which is capable of triggering an attack on the opposite side when performed meaty enough - her angled decline from the air then puts her on the opposite side...

(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh217/CerberusFx/CS_zps4497b583.png)

...which is why its much more effective combined with its much faster speed. Angled and closely centred hitboxes seem to have the most inconsistencies in their behaviour however - especially if they are coupled with long active frames. Longer active frames + angles = extended variability in their hitting range and also potential variation in their hitting 'side' when spaced properly. The same applies to close-to-centre hitboxes as is the case with Cammy. Suggestion in Cammy's case? Move that hitbox forward - i.e. to the right -  a lot. Enough so that if she doesn't place it directly in front of you like a regular jump attack, it will simply sail past as the hitbox can't connect at all. No ambiguity, no cross-up, but a fully functional attack nonetheless that will still be a fine combo starter and tech buster for serious damage. However, if more players could actually BLOCK this with consistency, would the character lose viability? Her dive kick makes her strong, but is it effective because its simply a good attack, or because a lot of folks have difficulty blocking it? Both?)

Note that I'm not having a cry about Cammy, she's just a perfect example of what can be hazy in this game's defence department as her stuff is a recognised attribute and we see it a lot. Other examples of similar hazy attributes are Ken and Sakura's j.hp setups, Seth's j.hk, shoto j.lk in the corner, Gen's whacky setups, etc.

It was fun tinkering with these properties to introduce other weird stuff. I remember making Akuma's j.hk a proper cross-up attack for example which was kinda cool. Another change I made was to fireballs to extend their horizontal 'behind' hitboxes slightly so they could be placed meaty like in previous releases of SF2. That was kinda cool also. The effect this had for Guile and Ryu was especially interesting. A sufficiently meaty EX ball for Ryu on hit could combo into his Ultra outside of the corner without the need for an FADC to chase their float state, haha.

Anyway, all this bad noise aside, its for these reasons that I was really interested to see how Capcom approached 'unblockables' because my immediate thought was 'good luck with that bottomless pandoras box of interrelated bullshit.' Who knows, perhaps Rosas is right and only a few known and key things need trimmed; but as was the case with 2012 I'm sure new stuff will emerge in time if the real root cause isn't sufficiently addressed. I also really hope Ultra's training mode gives us hitbox detail - that'd be neat. It would make sense for the final iteration of the game to leave us with the toolset to squeeze every inch out of the game's potential.

Time for another coffee. MOAR.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on October 26, 2013, 11:38:15 AM
I agree about the old school stuff since SF2 was my main game and also think about people playing characters with large hit boxes (Sagat sympathy group) and times anything Cammy has by 2. Things like Sakura's j.hp beat his Tiger Uppercut clean.

 I find it also ironic that Cammy being so good at being ambiguous is very hard to cross up herself and her AA is much easier to pull off because of her smaller hurt box.

The thing is though once you play good players, most of the time a match runs like this - footsie's , exchange some blows , someone nets a KD eventually either through luck or read, wake up - throws get teched, frame traps get focused or focus teched, reversal, blocking, EX escape move.

The game encourages you to go for the cross up because it's your only chance to open someone up it feels like sometimes. I mean I play Fei Long and even on a KD a lot of the time my best option is to go for a vortex based J.mp to crack them open and he isn't even a vortex style character. If you make cross ups easier to block you kinda have to make something else more powerful. 

 
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Sure-you-can on October 26, 2013, 01:39:28 PM
Armour break still destroys red focus, not a brilliant idea.

Zangief confirmed top tier... unless his ultras only put out 300 on double ultra
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on October 26, 2013, 02:07:07 PM
Armour break still destroys red focus, not a brilliant idea.

Zangief confirmed top tier... unless his ultras only put out 300 on double ultra

Full Ultra is 66% of the regular. Not my chart but check out below, this is going off current values.

If you don't have a very damaging Ultra as it stands its completely pointless. Guile for example, why would he pick double Ultra? Again this is a mechanic that will help characters tremendously and others it wont make the slightest difference. I've always hated the Ultra's anyway.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on October 26, 2013, 05:17:44 PM
A few more things to add.

EH_jason24cf ‏@Jason24cf 24 Oct

Ok since Red Focus is out here are more USFIV changes. Sagat get his vanilla LK, guile has 4fr U1 that autocorrects, 3fr air grab.

EH_jason24cf ‏@Jason24cf 24 Oct

Juri gets bigger Hitboxes on most of her normals as well as frame adjustments to speed up her normals. U2 has a bigger hitbox, use for AA

If you don't have a very damaging Ultra as it stands its completely pointless.

Removing options is not pointless. Look @ how Haitani used Makoto's Ultra 2 as an escape against Juso Sakura's corner setups/pressure @ TGS (which were good enough to body Xian and Infiltration). Using double Ultra for Mak gives him the exact same benefits as well as giving him a 214-316 ultra after karakusa, which is more than he can do if he was meterless or mid screen with meter (just guessing on that last one, not sure how it scales after karakusa as well)

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on October 26, 2013, 05:34:51 PM
I,m not saying it won't make some characters better, it clearly will but it won't make the game more balanced.

I could rattle off 10 characters that have Ultra's that aint that flash and considering a 66% Ultra may do the same damage as your maximum punish it's a little bizarre to me. Remember a level 1 Ultra does even less than that so you could be looking at a 200 damage scenario with Ultra.

I mean take Adon for example, he now gets a full screen fireball punish or a FADC juggle. That seems to be instantly too good and if the point of the game is to make things more exciting I can tell you if I'm playing with Sagat against Adon and he has 2 Ultra's and 2 bars I can basically do nothing at all. I will play even more defensive than before. They say Ultra's make the game more attacking whilst I'd say the complete opposite, Ultra's shut down play for some characters completely.

Then maybe look at someone like Ryu, I'm still not sure I see any benefit in having a U2 at the expense of a gimped U1 or say Cammy, is U2 really worth it considering she has an anti fireball Ultra that can juggle already?

I'm all for change though, I just can't see these one's being that great.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on October 27, 2013, 10:32:11 AM
Gamogo,
Please get hired by CAPCOM or any fighting game maker of your choice!

Regarding Red Focus, there's one player in the world right now who is not interested at all with it. He'll stick with the standard blue focus.  :P
http://biffotasty.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/saving.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1peragLwxs

Also;
"DM|Zhi was kind enough to translate for Yoshinori.""Ono said that this new system mechanic would be a huge change, with wide sweeping alterations to how the game is played, similar to the scale of difference that Red Focus and double ultras will have." via EH
At this rate, no one will care about the 5th character anymore......
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Revolver on November 15, 2013, 10:40:19 PM
"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
Ultra Street Fighter 4 has delayed stand up timing! The vortex dream is dead T_T"

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
Double  W ultra combo will only do 60% at the time of the Beta test"

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
[Beta test] Red focus, if ex canceled from a move will crumple even on level one."

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
There are 3 different levels of Red Focus.  It can take up to double digit hits."

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
You can now combo red focus cancel into crumple. Ex. Ryu st. hp -> cancel red focus level 1 (crumple) -> ultra = combo."

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
red focus costs 2 bars. Producers wanted to help the charge characters and give a better chance with new red focus cancel combo system."

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
The command for red focus is (MK+MP+any other attack button). Costs 2 meters"

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
producers felt Attackers had too much advantage in previous versions. They've given defensive players more tools now."

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
The game is 65% complete. If you DO NOT give your opinions, then Capcom will consider the game 100% complete. (laughs)"

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
The other 35% of the game will be completed by user feedback and Capcom, so please attend the loktest and share your opinion."

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
No release date on console version. They are discussing it internally at the company (both US and JP)"

"Zhi ‏@Zhieeep 2h
Arcade version will release in April. In time for the Cherry blossoms.  Dat Sakura doe."

More at: https://twitter.com/Zhieeep (https://twitter.com/Zhieeep)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on November 16, 2013, 11:20:08 AM
So many changes; should have just called it SF5 and update the models for 1080p res. Hah.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on November 16, 2013, 04:13:26 PM
Yeah I don't quite understand why they had to go so overboard. I'm sure the same amount of people would have bought into the game without so much drastic changes. If it was for profit reasons that is, which it has to be you would think. 

A question about the RF I've not seen answered yet though is that do you burn it when you press the 3 buttons, or do you only burn it when you come into contact with another move? If it's the former then you'll basically get a scenario now where upon reaching 2 bars any sort of offense is at massive risk due to RF fishing.

Also intersting that now the focus + throw tech won't work if you have 2 bars (well it will, it will just cost you 2 meters) but will it still work if you don't have 2 meters? I assume so.

The EX cancel I'm pretty worried about, you can basically hit confirm into Ultra with every character which I guess isn't so bad but it just seems like such a massive game changer.

I wish they'd just altered the characters instead of the mechanics. The game is quite good as it is.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on November 17, 2013, 09:54:34 AM
I'm supposing EX cancel has to cost 2 bars as well, so 4 bars to combo a normal into an Ultra? And those rumors earlier of it being unscaled?

Sounds like a viable extra option for some characters but useless for a majority. Managing a single meter is more important than stocking 4 most of the time.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on November 17, 2013, 10:00:20 AM
I'm supposing EX cancel has to cost 2 bars as well, so 4 bars to combo a normal into an Ultra? And those rumors earlier of it being unscaled?

Sounds like a viable extra option for some characters but useless for a majority. Managing a single meter is more important than stocking 4 most of the time.


That and you can most likely confirm into Super already (and keep your Ultra).

I guess in the frame trap side of things it could be deadly but it still seems like an expensive risk.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on November 17, 2013, 12:58:53 PM
Just realised that 4 button tech changes as well with red focus. Assuming tech has higher priority than red focus, the new os would be raw red focuswhen you have two or more meters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on November 17, 2013, 01:24:07 PM
So many changes; should have just called it SF5 and update the models for 1080p res. Hah.

If they called it a new numbered game because of a few new mechanics than sfiv would've been sf8.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on November 17, 2013, 01:51:25 PM
If they called it a new numbered game because of a few new mechanics than sfiv would've been sf8.

SF1 has one version only.
SF2 adds eight characters, four new playable bosses, new moves, new characters, super gauge and..... HD rebalance.
SFZ adds 3 levels of super with zero-counters, custom combo, grooves/count-hit while adding new characters all the time.
SF3 has parry, EX moves, red parry while adding new characters all the time.
SF4 uses 3D (so not SF EX) while having saving-attack and ultra revenge meter while adding new characters all the time.

More like it will be SF99 if each increment was a new number (kind of like Windows OS).
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on November 18, 2013, 08:14:10 AM
Vortex characters have to make do with techable knockdowns? Yeah!
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on November 22, 2013, 03:42:57 PM
USD dat translating beast getting all the ultra changes up.

http://shoryuken.com/2013/11/21/ultra-street-fighter-iv-japanese-location-test-coverage-hub/

lol @ red focus being fucking useless.

Ken for top tier not counting the new characters since Poison is like a super souped up Fei Long atm.

Vortex characters have to make do with techable knockdowns? Yeah!

I like people who tech Cammy's spiral arrow knockdowns, just saying people will adapt. Really need to see the lenght of time between the new delayed wake up and normal wake up for hard knockdowns, like Cammy has setups for people who tech spiral arrow knockdowns and if they stay down they go straight into another setup for the now hardknockdown.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on November 22, 2013, 07:37:43 PM
Oh my, Rose changes are awesome.

Rose
    Forward dash now 20F, down from 21F
    Crouch LP damage 20 -> 30
    Crouch LK damage 30 -> 40
    Crouch MP damage 60 -> 70
    L/M/H Soul Spiral damage 100 -> 110
    EX Soul Spiral damage 120 -> 130, invincibility 11F -> 13F
    M Soul Spark start-up 22F -> 20F
    H Soul Spark start-up 29F -> 27F
    Illusion Spark start-up 12f -> 10f
    Soul Satellite input changed to 214×2+KKK
    L Soul Spiral distance increased (via Zhi)

Some of these I thought would be good a few months ago and she ended up getting everything! Better fireballs, better bnb damage, full invincibility reversal, faster U1. She gonna go to town, especially in a more defensive SF4. Excited!

These changes make for a very interesting read...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Niah on November 22, 2013, 08:23:43 PM
that increased lp spiral range better be a nerf so i can bloody punish it...

meanwhile, vega gets nothing as usual
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Meeks on November 23, 2013, 12:01:39 AM
Quote
Chun-Li

- Jump reduced from 41F to 36F


OMG!! I love this ...  :o
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Skepticism on November 23, 2013, 09:36:08 AM
Oni gets FADCable DPs and a better sweep

kekekekeke


Quote
Seth
..
JB.HP - Zoompunch(YOGA SNIPER)

Is this what I think it is? This scares me...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on November 23, 2013, 12:58:30 PM
Hugo, Rolento, Poison and Elena's super & ultras.
http://www.youtube.com/user/CapcomSF/videos

Hugo's air ultra overhead camera angle. O_o
Rolento's TNP looks painful for the opponent.
Poison's grab & crotch kick; bleh.
Elena's healing is an ultra? I am now imagining Elena time out wins....
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on November 23, 2013, 06:37:41 PM
that increased lp spiral range better be a nerf so i can bloody punish it...

meanwhile, vega gets nothing as usual

da fuck?

Vega can hit confirm into Ultra 2 off c.lp
can link into ultra 2 off c.mk
ex dp invincible
df hk quicker and +2 on block instead of -3

Tweeted By Kim1234.

Juri Yang Vega (Claw) are the MVP's in tokyo for today.

Uyro impressions translated by Shouta on neogaf.

Claw - Quite buffed. Adding invincibility to EX Terror might be a bad idea. He looked really strong. With Delayed Wake-up, it's harder to vortex him too.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90875894&postcount=1462


Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on November 24, 2013, 06:46:34 PM
Yeah Niah, Vega got like some of the best buffs dude.

He'll be a monster now. Fei Long won't even be able to touch him...  :(
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on November 24, 2013, 07:18:16 PM
Niah's so bad he can't even appreciate the strong buffs he got.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Niah on November 24, 2013, 07:31:26 PM
people are debating about if cosmic heel is really +2 on block. i think it's mistaken and it is +2 at max range instead of +1. if it really is +2 on block, it'll be +6 at the tip. that is beyond broken and won't stay. cr.mk to ultra is useless except in stun combos. ex dp and cr.lp are the only real buffs, but compare to everyone else, they are nothing. i don't know why the hell they nerf vega's roll to -8 on block, the shit?!!?! vega needs a proper anti air, a charge anti air is completely stupid if vega is gonna be using his awesome walk speed and footsies! i predict all the other buffs on other people will overshadow vega and will remain low tier yet again.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: in4war on November 25, 2013, 07:54:54 AM
Wow evil ryu is gonna be way more stronger with that 6 frame sweep(i hope they keep it for the final build) in which he can come into a knockdown. His Sweep combo into dive kick or jp.mk, its gonna be great.

They nerfed yun yet again I don't see the reason why they had to Nerf him again, hell be a dead character if they end up going through with changes for Ussf4.

Bison!!!! what can i say his pressure is gone with that scissor knee press going to -1 on block(RIP Bison :)))

To me the rest of the cast look much more even now then ssf4ae 2012.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on November 25, 2013, 11:21:25 AM
Bison!!!! what can i say his pressure is gone with that scissor knee press going to -1 on block(RIP Bison :)))
His scissor kick pressure isn't dead by all means. It's fairer against the characters that had little answer to it but that's about it. The concept of scissor kick pressure wasn't spamming it forever since there has always been a 10 frame gap, now there is an 11 frame gap, how you going to say the pressure is dead based on that? They even buffed the scissor kick damage, which means more chip overall.

If anything they buffed Bison.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: in4war on November 25, 2013, 12:16:22 PM
Bison!!!! what can i say his pressure is gone with that scissor knee press going to -1 on block(RIP Bison :)))
His scissor kick pressure isn't dead by all means. It's fairer against the characters that had little answer to it but that's about it. The concept of scissor kick pressure wasn't spamming it forever since there has always been a 10 frame gap, now there is an 11 frame gap, how you going to say the pressure is dead based on that? They even buffed the scissor kick damage, which means more chip overall.

If anything they buffed Bison.


Now that scissor kick being -1 on block means he can't use his cr.lk into scissor kick effectively anymore in which will slow down is pressure game a lot. Bison cant win the next move if the opponent has a 3 frames(ryu). And if i waste a meter he can block because PC EX startup is like ... 14 frames.

-1 = scissors punishable by grapplers U1 and akuma/evil ryu's raging demon.Gief is a bad matchup for him already.

It's not a big nerf but now there are characters that can punish him for reckless scissor kicks.

So I personally can't say they buffed bison.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on November 25, 2013, 02:12:14 PM
- Light Kick Double Knee Press is -1 on guard
- Far stand Medium Punch start up is 6F, can special cancel
- Crouch Heavy Punch start up is 10f
- Scissors LK, MK, HK,EX +10 damage
- Teleport +5f recovery
- Headpress startup 22->20f
- Devil Reverse EX Followup falls faster
- Ultra 2 damage 450->420
- Ultra 2 charge 55f -> 40f

3 nerfs. Teleport was always average versus strong minded players, damage nerf to ultra 2 is fair given the 50/50 it has afterwards. The only real nerf is to LK scissors kick, and it isn't even that bad - it just means you can't use the move recklessly against characters who can punish it like you said.

The Ryu match up doesn't change at all, not even sure why you wanted to mention Ryu. He's still free to most corner pressure.

Bison is still just solid and most definitely not RIP.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on November 25, 2013, 09:21:38 PM
Evil Ryu looks like he got a bit too much to be honest, but fuck it, time for change.

I also agree that Bison was a bit of a strange one, -1 is not that big a deal but it does nerf the only thing he's really good at.

This will all be for nothing the if the don't fix the proximity shit. That stuffs broken, like really broken. I've already watched a video of Alioune practicing some shit with Sagat (who's getting some tasty buffs anyway  8))
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: in4war on November 26, 2013, 06:58:53 AM
- Light Kick Double Knee Press is -1 on guard
- Far stand Medium Punch start up is 6F, can special cancel
- Crouch Heavy Punch start up is 10f
- Scissors LK, MK, HK,EX +10 damage
- Teleport +5f recovery
- Headpress startup 22->20f
- Devil Reverse EX Followup falls faster
- Ultra 2 damage 450->420
- Ultra 2 charge 55f -> 40f

3 nerfs. Teleport was always average versus strong minded players, damage nerf to ultra 2 is fair given the 50/50 it has afterwards. The only real nerf is to LK scissors kick, and it isn't even that bad - it just means you can't use the move recklessly against characters who can punish it like you said.

The Ryu match up doesn't change at all, not even sure why you wanted to mention Ryu. He's still free to most corner pressure.

Bison is still just solid and most definitely not RIP.

bwhahaha yeah sorry madenka i forgot to finish the reason i put ryu in there ;) the reason i put ryu is his 3 frame dragon punch and his super which can also punish if bison still decides to continue with cr,lk after his scissor .

yeah evil ryu will be stronger with that 6 frame sweep but most of his strategies and mix-up's will be harder to setup with that delayed wake up (unless your new to street fighter). The why i see it if character like evil ryu that can explode with half life combos and now he can keep you lying on your back, hell be a very strong character in USSf4 in my opinion.

looks like elana is gonna be a strong chacater in USSf4

- Ultra 2 (Healing) heals about 45% of her health if used as a single ultra and fully charged. Amount of health healed depends on how long you hold the buttons.

- QCB+K is an armor breaking move.

- Has a walk speed similar to Ryu's.

- Has strong air to air attacks.

- Dashes reportedly lacking in effectiveness.

- Ultra 1 is Brave Dance.

- Super is Spinning Beat.

- Her slide is good.

- Overheads are long and fast. EX Overhead is CRAZY fast.

- EX Spin Kicks appear to be safe on block.

- Her footsies are reportedly very strong.

- Jump is floaty.

- Ultra 2 (Healing) heals 100 damage when it's a 50% Ultra in Double Ultra setting (as in, the weakest possible setting for it), but you have enough time to jump towards her and attack when she starts it.

- Crouching Elena has an extremely low profile. Makes Yang's Rekka and Dan's Danku whiff

- Lynx Tail (reverse DP + K) whiffs easily. Comes out by accident

- DP doesn't have a lot of invincibility and is not throw invincible at all.

- EX Spinning Scythe not comboable?

- EX Mallet Smash is extremely fast, can combo off of, and is positive on block

- EX Rhino Horn - When used to go through projectiles, it tends to only do one hit and doesn't knock down


she has all the tools beside some moves(which are marked in red ) that wont make her broken. She is a character to look out for in USSF4.


i want to play hugo now soooooo hurry the fuk up capcom.





Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on November 26, 2013, 07:33:07 AM
You realise Ryu has always been able to do that since Vanilla right? What do you think happens if Bison uses cr.lk immediately after lk scissors and Ryu dps? Scissors is 0 on block and both moves are 3 frame start ups. The difference is Ryu has invincibility on dp. So how would that be any different now if lk scissors is -1? You seem to think being 0 on block means Bison can do anything uninterrupted but that has never been the case.

If you want to use Ryu's super after a -1 move then enjoy that lol.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: in4war on November 26, 2013, 08:02:59 AM
You realise Ryu has always been able to do that since Vanilla right? What do you think happens if Bison uses cr.lk immediately after lk scissors and Ryu dps? Scissors is 0 on block and both moves are 3 frame start ups. The difference is Ryu has invincibility on dp. So how would that be any different now if lk scissors is -1? You seem to think being 0 on block means Bison can do anything uninterrupted but that has never been the case.

If you want to use Ryu's super after a -1 move then enjoy that lol.

all true points and well said, its just what i was trying to point out is that cause now bison scissor kick will be at -1 any 3 frame move will beat his cr,lk if he decides to do it cause he will be -1 not 0. when he was on 0 frames most 3 frame(ryu cr.lp) moves will trade with his cr.lk then get punished with scissor but now its harder.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on November 26, 2013, 08:10:25 AM
I know what you mean, a better example would be 3 frame short like Guy's or Cody's. Now those characters have another option when under Bison pressure. It isn't fool proof but it does mean less auto pilot from Bison.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: thirdeye (Ikuya) on November 28, 2013, 10:55:51 AM
btw how do u guys think about delayed wake up after heavy knock down?

it is good to escape from unblockables but it will kill safe jump/OS with jump attack too.

Then ppl need to offence frm ground more,  almost always need to think about reversal DPs, will be more mind game but it will make more random luck game. (and actually this makes faster DP characters will be stronger...lol
guess why dudley is hard to get damge though he has power and good over head, other character will be poorer.
(one good thng is it makes dudley is better character, high power=less mind game)


disgasting set up frm heavy knock down is annoying many ppl, but i think it is advantage/reward for offence side, most important thing that using jump set up is less risk=less random losing.


I think this is why Bison got nerfed, this changing will make safer for him, but now i think back dash is good.

I just now wish delayed wake up should hve some risk/using meter, or nerf back dash.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Madenka AU on November 28, 2013, 12:13:37 PM
Personally dislike delayed wake up. Main reason is because I've put a lot of time into playing T Hawk and Untechable knockdown from Typhoon is one of the strongest facets of his game. Now is just more random for him and as a result the rewards will be harder to reap.

I think as a whole the delayed wake up change reflects the one shot answer to unblockables only. It seems pointless now to have techable knockdown when you have delayed wake up for untechable knockdowns. It almost seems as though the player who applies more pressure is being punished for creating the situation by allowing the opponent another layer of ambiguity.

I recall a lot of the complaints about unique character wake ups over the years (Adon, Blanka, Sagat & Cammy to name).
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on November 28, 2013, 03:17:59 PM
I'm a bit mixed on it really. I was always a fan of people outsmarting or reading their opponents rather than simply pressing a sequence of buttons which would cover 5 bases all to your advantage, some of those being unblockable.

The delayed wake up will still offer grounded pressure option selects, just not jump ins. It will shake the game up and we'll have characters who will gain a lot from it, like Sagat (about time), I really just see it as a changing of the gaurd.

Characters like Akuma and Cammy still have enough options and tools than most of the cast anyway. I obviously don't like what they've done to Fei as a character, also Adon and Yun I can't understand. 

It doesn't really look like a balance patch. It's another game.

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Revolver on December 01, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
"Biggest change nobody is talking about"

http://www.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/1rrj5q/the_biggest_single_usf4_change_nobody_is_talking/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/1rrj5q/the_biggest_single_usf4_change_nobody_is_talking/)
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on December 01, 2013, 03:03:07 PM
Yeah , read that also. No big deal really, just have to adjust.

I watched some of the stream today. Zangiefs green hand has been quickened quite a bit, he'll be pretty scary.

Rolento looks meh,  I don't really like any of the new characters.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Westlo on December 01, 2013, 05:22:01 PM
It doesn't really look like a balance patch. It's another game.

That's why it's Ultra SFIV and not Super SFIV AE 2014.

If Capcom could get away with it they wouldn't even offer an upgrade path from Super/AE to Ultra. But they copped too much heat over SFIV > Super and MVC > UMVC3 even though other fighting game devs like ASW get away with worse.

And seriously lifting Supers from Art of Fighting and putting them into Turbo was a bigger change for the SF2 series than anything in Ultra. Imagine if SFIV had no ultras and than Super introduced them.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Gamogo on December 01, 2013, 06:26:42 PM
"Biggest change nobody is talking about"

http://www.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/1rrj5q/the_biggest_single_usf4_change_nobody_is_talking/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/1rrj5q/the_biggest_single_usf4_change_nobody_is_talking/)

Was talking to Gilley today about this - its worded incorrectly. What they've done is extended the side-detection duration by 1f for all characters so that the state of limbo between which "side" to block on is more lenient. They run through a bunch of unblockables to verify its effectiveness and none worked (the closest they could get was for them to register as fake cross-ups) suggesting that so far its somewhat successful.

(Then along came a Sakura player and pulled off an unblockable setup without issue. lol.)

Supposedly this change does result is a subtly different feel for jump-in combos. I'm really curious to see how this pans out.
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: maxsze90 on December 01, 2013, 07:15:06 PM
Wouldn't this change make all current unblockables into blockables?

I'd like to see if this +1f hitstop would help in cancelling Ryu's cr.mk to dp on reaction to focus attack/hit against block.

I mean it's already impossible for 95% of players barring some insanely ridiculous guys, but this might make it 90% of players? XD
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: Solarsailor on December 01, 2013, 09:44:02 PM
More likely it'll throw up some fucked up shit that didn't cross up but now does...  ;D

Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on January 03, 2014, 10:39:41 PM
Infiltraion's Rolento vs FChamp's Seth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVYlFFwFkF0

PR Rog's Elena vs Vaile's Rolento
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRav-o2j5lY
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on February 02, 2014, 07:27:11 PM
USF4 beta changes;
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2014/01/30/ultra-street-fighter-4-change-list
So many minor nerf/buffs. My head is spinning...
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: whatcudgowrong on March 03, 2014, 11:06:11 PM
Select your character, then select your version?!?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOhECaPwsho
Title: Re: SSF4 AE 2013!
Post by: water_ling on June 02, 2014, 09:54:11 PM
Sayanora AE2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4BxY0oiCP8
Combolicious!