Author Topic: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11  (Read 7061 times)

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Offline Heavy Weapons

Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2011, 03:37:25 PM »
First of all, Guys lets calm down.

I don't mean to take either side in particular (HW or Ali) but with all due respect, why can't we run it with one character for GC tournament given we have Boxhill tourney which allows you to change characters.

There is no real need to have two tourneys with the identical rules.
You can practice your main at GC tourney and use multiple characters in Boxhill if you want.

Tournamant is mostly run for the competing purpose.  Thus, usually the only REAL reason in tourney for switching character is to counter-pick and it's not because players get BORED using the same character.  The top priority for tournament is to compete and it is serious business.  Some people may want to have fun in tourney but you can do that in casual as well.

In addition, what Chris said DOES make sense.  I personally believe one of the reasons some of us is not as good as where they can be is because they don't stick to one character in tourney.

I once said to melb player he is S**T (no offence to him though  ) because he can't stick with one character.  Then he said it's boring just using one character.  My answer to that was, "Do you F**king expect to only have fun and do whatever you want and be one of the top players in Melbourne, let alone the world?"

Being really good at something does not come with just fun and happiness.  People who know the taste of salt and work hard to overcome by their best endeavour will only reign in the end.

For me, I hate to turtle but sometimes I have to if I don't want to lose.  Criticising the opponent's playstyle after losing the match is just pure rubbish.

At the moment, I'm doubtful I can make it to tomorrow's tourney but see how it goes.

P.S. Sorry Melb player for using your example...

lol this man reads my mind amen
Oi Oi Moi. Best Crunch Heavy Punch in melbourne! fimblers and fimblettes get slapped silleh!

Offline Somniac

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2011, 04:09:22 PM »
I personally don't care how many characters people wanna pick, in their mind it's what they can win with.
The main reason for me sticking to only one character is that I don't have the time to put into anything else, and sure if I could pick a different character to win I would, a tournament is where you play to win, not level up.

"You can't beat my character with your main" "but now I have 100 dollars" is a fair argument.
I'm sure Daigo didn't hold back when money was on the line vs Mago in Canada, he picked the character he knew Mago couldn't handle (Guile).
It's the people who only stick to one character that should be strong enough to beat someone who's just dabbling in other characters, otherwise it's their own problem.

I don't mind either way, since I don't play multiple characters, but I think it's not a valid rule in this day and age, if we travel to where they actually play for money (USA) counter picking is common and part of the game.
Playing to win doesn't mean you're allowed to turtle but not allowed to change character, it means doing everything within the rules of the game to win, and changing characters is by default allowed in game play.

Offline EXC355UM

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2011, 04:22:45 PM »
Good rebuttal, I'll pay it.  ;D
And before anyone gets upset, this is what a forum is for... discussion.

Offline Heavy Weapons

Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2011, 04:59:46 PM »
in my eyes i lost respect for daigo when he did that cos he pretty much admitted magos main was better then his at that stage.. and thats japan and u.s standard aus is nowhere near that so b4 ppl pick other characters how about they learn how to play properly with one... jack of all trades master of none enough said.
Oi Oi Moi. Best Crunch Heavy Punch in melbourne! fimblers and fimblettes get slapped silleh!

Offline akirahat

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2011, 05:35:44 PM »
Fair argument Som.

Like I said, I don't mind either way.
It is just my opinion that maybe sticking with one character will improve some players' game level hence overall Melbourne standard.

All I have to say is this.

I'm from Japan and I have yet to see a big tournament in my country where you can switch a character.  To overcome counter-pick, we use 3 on 3 team format in Japan (i.e. SBO).

I just like to stick with my culture since that levelled me up to where I am, which also HAPPEN to have well established reputation of having so many SOLID players.

And for your information, you hardly ever get any respect in Japan if you are jack of all trades master of none (and I'm Japanese too <- hinting  ;)).

Apologies for digressing.
スパⅣAEで、10試合やって1、2試合勝ったのは勝ったとは言いません。そこんとこをしっかり理解しましょうオーストラリアの皆さん。

Offline EXC355UM

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2011, 05:48:44 PM »
Wasn't it Nagoya Street Battle that allowed a player to choose a main and a secondary in their 3v3 tournament?..  :P

I think people are missing the big picture here. Most are just thinking of it from a competitive point of view. 
We need to remember we are trying to get more people involved in the community, and those guys enter to have fun.

Not saying the rule should be changed, but people need to stop having tunnel vision and see the whole picture. Some players don't want to be the best in the world, they just want to come to tournaments, socialize, play and have fun, we can't forget those people.

Offline akirahat

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2011, 06:12:10 PM »
Wasn't it Nagoya Street Battle that allowed a player to choose a main and a secondary in their 3v3 tournament?..  :P

I don't know which NSB you are talking about but not to my memory.  Although I don't follow every single NSB but most of them, if not all, are one character per player and there is a REASON for it.

And Ali, I just find it hard to understand how, on one hand, you mention the plans to get Australia noticed WORLDWIDE for our game level (which I believe having a serious competition helps a lot in terms of improvement), and on the other hand, you use a tournament as a mere tool to socialise or to just have FUN.  Is it just me who thinks it's little contradicting one another?  Or is the plan while the rest of us are having fun socialising, Toxy and Bomb willl work 100 times harder in international scenes and prove what we are worthy of?
スパⅣAEで、10試合やって1、2試合勝ったのは勝ったとは言いません。そこんとこをしっかり理解しましょうオーストラリアの皆さん。

Offline EXC355UM

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2011, 06:43:28 PM »
One of the recent NSB events used that format. I think it was the one where Daigo, Mochi and Momochi won.
All used Guile as their secondary.

And to answer your second question;

I personally am all about competitiveness, have been so for a long time, long before playing competitive fighting games.
But, what kind of community would we be if we just turned our backs on those who just come to have fun?..

I don't want to see the community die, and the last thing we want is to be elitist and tell them they must pick one character and become world warriors.
I want to see this community live on for a long time, and with so many games being released now and in the future we can do that.

We can still get the community noticed, and let the causal players have their fun too. But if we start to become too hardcore, there isn't going to be much of a community.

Offline SLoo|SoL

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2011, 06:57:18 PM »
Alright i think everybody has made there points heard now so lets end this before it gets to off topic shall we?

Also just lets see how things turn out tomorrow who knows everyone might be happy with the tournament and rules (Hopefully it goes well so GC can be a big part of the Melborune SF community) and lets all kiss and make up in person now shhh back on topic :P

Offline akirahat

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2011, 07:18:38 PM »
Fair enough, although you made a rather interesting asuumption.

"must use one character" DOES NOT mean you can't have fun.

Are you saying that players are not having fun in most of tourneys in Japan since it forces you to pick one character?  I don't understand why so many people still join them if they can't have fun because of that rule.

The following question should sum it up well.

Do you believe that you can have fun in the tournament ONLY IF you are able to switch a character during the tournament?

I can personally have fun either way.  So my answer to that is NO.  You should also look into past tournament results to see how many players just use one character.

Again your point "must be able to use multiple characters, otherwise no fun in tourney" is rather unsustainable I believe.  It is a valid option but not must have option in order to have a fun tourney.  You are somewhat digressing from the main point I'm trying to make.

We should compare the tomorrow's turnout to that of Boxhill and see if substantially less number of people enter (like less than 25 which is more than half of last Boxhill turnout).  If so, then it means you are right since people would not enter a tourney where there is no FUN.
スパⅣAEで、10試合やって1、2試合勝ったのは勝ったとは言いません。そこんとこをしっかり理解しましょうオーストラリアの皆さん。

Offline akirahat

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2011, 07:49:17 PM »
Alright i think everybody has made there points heard now so lets end this before it gets to off topic shall we?

Also just lets see how things turn out tomorrow who knows everyone might be happy with the tournament and rules (Hopefully it goes well so GC can be a big part of the Melborune SF community) and lets all kiss and make up in person now shhh back on topic :P

Consider it done, except for the part where you said "kiss"  ;)
I usually charge people for that  ;D
スパⅣAEで、10試合やって1、2試合勝ったのは勝ったとは言いません。そこんとこをしっかり理解しましょうオーストラリアの皆さん。

Offline Somniac

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2011, 08:00:56 PM »
On to a more pressing topic -
Quote
Format and Rules:
- 1 Match (5 rounds)
- Double Elimination

I had a think about this and I do think it is unsustainable on 4 cabs.
On 6 cabs this would usually run till midnight, with 40 or so people, if we run on 4 cabs we'll be running till like 2-3am!
I honestly think we need to change this either to Single Elim, or to Best of 3 rounds double Elim to make sure we actually have enough time to finish this. (at least trial it with these first before going to best of 5)
Keep in mind that some of us don't drive, and the last trains are the ONLY form of transport on a Thursday that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.


Offline EXC355UM

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2011, 08:22:25 PM »
I never said the ONLY thing casual players find fun is changing characters Akira.
Instead of just thinking about ourselves, we need to think of the community as a whole.

Sure Japan do things different, but they have grown accustom to it. Now, if you add the one character rule here, to make it more like Japan, are we going to make it single elimination too?..

I don't know about you, but if I was a casual player and had to leave after one loss in the tournament, I would feel pretty crappy.
Now, the dedicated will keep coming back and striving for that first win, but not everyone is like that. We have lost many players who show up once, get beaten really badly and then never show up again.

Not saying "single elim" is going to happen, just using it as an example.

Speaking of causal players, I met some dude in Coles and he saw my shirt and asked about SSFIV, so I told him about tomorrow and he's coming down and entering for fun.

@Som: I think best of 3 is more viable then single elim. Guess it will be best to talk on the day, about this subject and the one above, cause the internet sucks for getting your point across. :P

Offline akirahat

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2011, 09:10:04 PM »
I never said the ONLY thing casual players find fun is changing characters Akira.
Instead of just thinking about ourselves, we need to think of the community as a whole.

Sure Japan do things different, but they have grown accustom to it. Now, if you add the one character rule here, to make it more like Japan, are we going to make it single elimination too?..

I don't know about you, but if I was a casual player and had to leave after one loss in the tournament, I would feel pretty crappy.
Now, the dedicated will keep coming back and striving for that first win, but not everyone is like that. We have lost many players who show up once, get beaten really badly and then never show up again.

Not saying "single elim" is going to happen, just using it as an example.

Speaking of causal players, I met some dude in Coles and he saw my shirt and asked about SSFIV, so I told him about tomorrow and he's coming down and entering for fun.

I don't see the relevance of bringing up single elimination rule here.  We've had one character rule in past and I don't see such a big deal out of it.  Besides, like I said, there is Boxhill tourney which allows you to play multiple characters.  It's not the end of world.

You say "think about the community as a whole".  Please provide a logical explanation as to how a casual player prevented from having fun just because they have to stick with one character.

You mentioned of some players never returned to tourney again due to his bad loss in the first round.  Surely it is a loss to the community.  But again HOW is this relevant from allowing players to switch characters?  You sound as if this occurred due to one character rule.  Even if you are talking about double elimination, are you saying that they will come back with two bad losses but not one?  Your argument surely doesn't make sense.

You are so missing the point but you are in such a firm belief that you are RIGHT so I'm just gonna stop like HW.  Just remember this.  You started off with saying that Sol and Mole won't be happy with one character rule.  I somehow have difficulty reading it as they are representing all the Casual Players who enter the tourney for FUN.

Enough political BS for me, I will just be a player and nothing else.
スパⅣAEで、10試合やって1、2試合勝ったのは勝ったとは言いません。そこんとこをしっかり理解しましょうオーストラリアの皆さん。

cypheros

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Re: [Melb] GC SSF4AE Ranking Tournament #1 - 6:45PM Thur 17/2/11
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2011, 09:22:54 PM »
Alright i think everybody has made there points heard now so lets end this before it gets to off topic shall we?

Also just lets see how things turn out tomorrow who knows everyone might be happy with the tournament and rules (Hopefully it goes well so GC can be a big part of the Melborune SF community) and lets all kiss and make up in person now shhh back on topic :P

Consider it done, except for the part where you said "kiss"  ;)
I usually charge people for that  ;D

Please don't make it a consideration. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and no one is being personally attacked here. I actually find these discussions stimulating  ;)

Can someone tell me what happened to HW's posts? Why were they deleted?