Author Topic: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)  (Read 9789 times)

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Offline Gamogo

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2012, 08:16:26 PM »
I can't find any data on the VW222u :/

Its important to understand that Grey to Grey/G2G timings have zero bearing on input lag. From a gaming perspective, G2G speeds are a measurement of how quickly the pixel state changes (i.e. containing information or not - or in other words displaying a piece of an image). A fast G2G speed presents minimal image ghosting or trails behind moving images. Today most screens have 2 or 5ms G2T ratings which is perfectly fine for fighting games. Higher (i.e. worse) G2T ratings tend to present themselves with heavy image trails in dark scenes (i.e. where you have constant movement - first person shooters can exhibit this and likewise some movies) which are easily noticeable.*

Input lag is not a specification released by manufacturers. Because of this, manual third party testing needs to be performed with a 0ms CRT used as the control. So far the fastest screens weigh in at around 5ms. The BenQ G series still remains the strongest performers, with the previous E series (no longer sold) comparing much the same 5~7ms). Players who demand execution reliability by way of 1 and 2 frame links tend to notice input lag from screens once you step past 10~12ms. In Australia all organisers are using screens which weigh in at 6-8ms last I paid attention to the models being used.

The flipside to responsive screens is when a player becomes accustomed to playing and learning on a screen which comparatively speaking, lags. The transition to a more responsive screen will be noticeable in a negative way whereby it actually messes up their timing and an adjustment will be required. For some the adjustment is simple, for others its frustrating. I liken it to those who play a lot online and make the transition to offline only to find things feel just that little bit different.

* A good test I use to get a real-world feel for G2G or image trails is to connect the screen to a PC and assign a plain black desktop wallpaper and to drag a Window around that has white contents (such as a blank text editor). This does two things: you can get a feel for the response or the screen for input registers AND you can discern any ghosting and trails from the borders of the window due to the dark background.

Here's another ghosting tester:

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testsoftware/schlieren2.html (Flash)

Though I recommend this application if you're serious about testing your screen(s) ghosting/G2G rating:

http://www.prad.de/download/pixperan_english.zip (Flash driven application)

I should probably put an article together summarising a lot of this stuff as I find myself talking about it a lot. A go-to resource might be handy as the thread on SRK right now is our third iteration and it tends to undergo a lot of derailing. Right now though, the first post with the cited screens and their models is accurate and current and definitely a go-to resource for anyone looking to buy a screen.

Re: splitters, I find a lot of POWERED splitters invoke lag. Not all, but many. Many undergo signal boosting which invokes a delay. Its very minimal, but its something stacked on top. Personally I find unpowered HDMI splitters to do just nicely and these can be had for $10 on eBay. If you're looking to split though because of your PC/console setup, I'd actually recommend outputting from your PC to the screen with DVI (same image quality, just no sound carried across) and use the HDMI port on the screen for your HDMI connected console. This means you can use the screen as a switching device (with no concerns for split image lag or problems) between your two devices. This is how I roll at home and its pretty handy.
So keep your bankroll lottery eat your salad day deathbed motorcade.

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2012, 08:57:10 PM »
Re: splitters, I find a lot of POWERED splitters invoke lag. Not all, but many. Many undergo signal boosting which invokes a delay. Its very minimal, but its something stacked on top. Personally I find unpowered HDMI splitters to do just nicely and these can be had for $10 on eBay. If you're looking to split though because of your PC/console setup, I'd actually recommend outputting from your PC to the screen with DVI (same image quality, just no sound carried across) and use the HDMI port on the screen for your HDMI connected console. This means you can use the screen as a switching device (with no concerns for split image lag or problems) between your two devices. This is how I roll at home and its pretty handy.

I can't believe I overlooked that, thats the simplest and best solution I think >_< cheers gam gam  ;D
I perfected gamerbee........at marvel :D
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Offline KellyNUTS

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2012, 10:20:45 PM »
Glad for Gamogos clarification, I always get something wrong with this latency stuff.
I think I get rickrolled cos of the use of words like: "Response Time"  :-\

Surprised the newer BenQs dont come with 2 HDMI ports anymore, pity for us console folk.
"Now just stand still. Move, and the wound will be deeper." - Leona Heidern

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2012, 05:03:54 PM »
Well, I bit the bullet and jumped on a  BenQ GW2450HM for $190 from JB.

Great monitor, but I think i'll keep it for my xbox setup, the size of the screen is a little big for my liking, with limited space on my PC table I dosnt really fit.

Lag free is amazing though, can't believe how bad my TV setup was before I tried this.

Cheers gamogo for the recommendation and help =)
I perfected gamerbee........at marvel :D
Sword of the Word, Grand Marshall of the Army of God

Offline Cabjoy

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2012, 10:02:25 AM »
Hey guys, what's the largest BenQ monitor some of you guys have found that has little/no input lag. Looking for a new monitor to play on but I want it to be quite a bit bigger than the one I'm using now. (From memory, around 21" or so)
Saikyo!!!

Offline Gamogo

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2012, 10:22:58 AM »
24": http://www.benq.com.au/product/monitor/GW2450HM
27": http://www.benq.com.au/product/monitor/gw2750hm

Both use the same panel tech, so have the same measured input lag (6~8ms) which is actually pretty impressive.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_gw2750hm.htm
So keep your bankroll lottery eat your salad day deathbed motorcade.

Offline Cabjoy

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2012, 12:58:54 PM »
Cheers mogo, just gotta track down where I could find one post christmas on sale!
Saikyo!!!

Offline Gamogo

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2012, 04:15:47 PM »
Best deals I've seen for both models has been (surprisingly) Office Works.
So keep your bankroll lottery eat your salad day deathbed motorcade.

Offline Skepticism

Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2013, 06:08:10 PM »
also check staticice fo sho

Offline Vargus

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Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #54 on: July 03, 2013, 09:07:42 PM »
Hi,

Since I am not an expert at the whole HDTV Input lag topic, I was wondering if the more informed could shed some light on the following...

Is the http://www.displaylag.com/ website, a "good" source of information on HDTV Input Lag Issue?

Or is it inaccurate and should be avoided?

- Vargus


Offline Gamogo

So keep your bankroll lottery eat your salad day deathbed motorcade.

Offline Vargus

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Re: Larger low input lag LCD panels (24" +)
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2013, 07:18:48 PM »
Re: Personally I find unpowered HDMI splitters to do just nicely and these can be had for $10 on eBay.

To Gamogo,

1) What is a good unpowered hdmi splitter? where should I get one from? A Link would be appreciated.

I had a few more questions too....

2) Looking at getting a large screen tv preferably 55" but will settle for smaller if that is the only option to meet my requirements, namely low input lag of course.

But I wanted to know if there are any large tvs that size that have no more than (17 milliseconds) ie 1 frame lag or less?

Looking at this thread...

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/55593?threads/the-new-definitive-hdtv-lag-faq.55593/

... it seems that I will have to test them for myself

the thread seems to cater for monitors, overseas model tvs, and PS3. It mentions that a copy of Rock Band 2 with a Guitar and Microphone (not sure if you need both guitar and microphone or if 1 of them is enough) you can do auto calibration test, that will tell you the milliseconds of input delay, well at least for PS3 not sure if the test is also for x360.

Not owning a copy of Rock Band 2 or guitar and microphone for either PS3 or x360, I am uncertain if the investment in all that stuff would be worth it, and if the method of testing is accurate enough on either console.

The only other piece of information I have to go off, is apparently the Sony KDL-55W900A (19 milliseconds delay = just over 1 frame) and Sony KDL-55W802A (17 milliseconds delay = 1 frame exactly) are good choices for large screen tvs. Though the website where I sourced the info may not be as credible as the SRK forum link that Gamogo posted earlier.

Here is that link for everyone's convenience...

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/145141/sub-1-frame-hdtvmonitor-input-lag-database

After checking at www.sony.com.au the Sony KDL-55W802A is not listed, only the KDL55W800A. They may have updated it to the 802A model, but not sure if it has the same or improved specs or if it's worse.

I also noticed that the SRK Thread (the first one I posted) mentions that the way to go would be a commercial grade tv, but not having access to that nor not knowing where I can get one scratches that idea.

3) I will be getting a Benq GW2750hm to play fighting games on, among other uses, such as my PC. However I would much prefer to watch TV shows, Movies and my other gaming on the large screen TV,  I am just trying to also play my fighting games on it as well.

So, where and which unpowered hdmi splitter should I buy? what can I do in terms of testing large TVs? should I invest in the Rock band 2 method or is there an alternate method? Does anyone know any large screen tvs with 1 frame lag or less?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks

- Vargus