A lot of interesting opinions regarding the best platform for ST. It's encouraging and I agree with most people in this thread that there is a need to have the game in some way or form, given the current state of new generation fighters.
I'm actually surprised how little actual information there is out there aside from logistics, so perhaps will weigh in at this point. Apologies in advance for the length of this post; there is just a lot to address.
HDR vs STThis post will not address the issue of HDR vs ST. Please keep that in another discussion, but I will say for the record that no HDR player has impressed me in their own game, despite vocalised support that it is the better game. My opinion will probably remain unchanged due to the nature and design behind the game, but that kind of detail should probably be in another thread.
BackgroundOnto the background. Like Ziggy, I never really played ST in the arcade or were around for the 'good old days'. I started playing ST on GGPO in 2008, and pretty much played it on a regular basis up til HDR came out. I have also played and experienced HDR both offline and online when it was released, and eventually dropped it, picking up SF4. To this day I am still occasionally on GGPO ST, and am keen to have more matches via that platform. I can't say the same about HDR. I am keen to have people playing ST as I find there is a lack of play for older titles and I genuinely feel that exposure to other fighting games can really help people gain more perspective in the newer titles today. Super Turbo serves as a fine entry to learn this.
I have been bringing ST equipment in many forms offline both locally and interstate for the last few years. I have both run and participated in 3 offline ST tournaments via HDR, Dreamcast, and most recently Supergun. There is good reason for the changes my fellow organisers and I have made for each tournament, and I feel as a player and organiser, that each iteration over the years was both necessary and rewarding to represent ST in the best way possible, while also being feasible logistically.
At this point, I would like to address anyone who had issue with my setups over the weekend. I am not a case modder. These Superguns used at OHN were made to be functional with my limited case skills in mind, though they were guaranteed to work correctly and laglessly. Neither of the two I made had any issues over the weekend, and thus to me (and others) were/are a success. Prior to those models, I used my prototype cardboard box which broke down via rough handling (lots of equipment) on Friday, but since has generally been problem free over the last few months.
The Superguns seen on Satuday/Sunday are the first iteration, and even since the weekend, there have been improvements regarding PS1/2 controls (not ready a week ago because of stupid ethernet labelling!) and video capture. Once I have the optimal setup, then I will work on perfecting my case skills. As is, I am confident that even these iterations can travel and be solid for the future. Anyone thinking they were 'unprofessional' should really look at some of the other solutions around the world lol …
ConsistencyBy no means would I also endorse ST played via emulator on a PC, despite suggestions from others to do so in the past. I have always seen ROMs and GGPO as private. I have no intention of playing or running a tournament on a PC board and never had, despite suggestions from other players. I totally agree with Ziggy that there are too many factors involved with a PC setup. Therefore, I too, feel that consoles or superguns should be used over emulation.
AccuracyHDR, even in classic mode, is not an option. A quick google search will reveal that the port suffers from much more than aesthetic issues, namely with its speed and input lag no matter what platform or monitors.
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/comparison-of-hdr-versions-ps3-360-dc-cps2.81717/http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/comparison-of-hdr-versions-ps3-360-dc-cps2.81717/page-2#post-3498543No matter what speed set in HDR or HDR classic mode, the speed will always be slower than JP3/US2 which is the world standard. 360 apparently has 7f of input lag, with the PS3 having an additional 1f. These points alone, regardless of any aesthetic or configuration issues is the reason why I feel it's a poor choice for offline ST, and most if not all fighting game communities around the world seem to agree.
That said, all ports, as Gizzle mentioned have some form of lag issue, with the Dreamcast being the least problematic. In terms of accuracy, it is definitely the better option, but in terms of reliability, Dreamcasts do have issues, namely the reset bug. This can generally be alleviated by doing the PSU pin bending trick before any event, and it worked fine when I ran it at OHN9.
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/sega/dc-reset.htmIf Dreamcasts do not suffice, another unmentioned platform that could be used would be HSF2 Capcom Collection JP version, as not only are speeds consistent, but also the platform being much more stable compared to the Dreamcast. Despite assertions that it is a poor port with issues, almost all are fixed with the Capcom Collection version, and by holding Select when choosing the Super/X mode. This was the option for European tournaments a couple of years ago, but I suspect they may have moved on to Superguns too.
Accessibility/CommunityIf in the case, HDR would be used, as 360 version is the more 'accurate' version of the game, it would be adopted as standard. Using this platform as a standard (even despite all the port issues) has its own problems. Not everyone has access to a 360, and to play online, one must pay for XBox Live, which limits the base even further compared to playing on the PC. After all of this, players must use XBL and HDR to communicate and arrange matches, the former I personally find cumbersome for most if not all fighting titles on the platform, and the latter I recall being a glitched out process where simple things like finding empty lobbies was impossible in the initial build (instead the search would only return any lobby that was full!). HDR also contains pseudo GGPO code for the actual game, which most players would agree is inferior.
GGPO has the benefit of better communication between players; there are more effective and direct streams of communication available in this process too, with in game and lobby chat, as well as spectating/recording across the whole lobby, none of which is offered to the same level in HDR. The superior netcode in GGPO means Australian players can also play players in both Asia and the US. The code and platform are also continuously improving. The same can't be said about HDR.
The openness and persistence of ST GGPO is a testament to the complete failure HDR was, not only as a new game, but also as a faithful port of the original. The legality of playing the game in contrast to Capcom's, Shoryuken and Ponder's stances of it further strengthens this.
World StandardFor the above reasons, the trend across the world where the arcade scene is poor is to adopt Superguns. There are now numerous resources which one may use to research this process:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/supergun-arcade-cps2-super-street-fighter-ii-turbo.119374/The scene is also progressing and furthering developments for this platform offline. This includes, but is not limited to:
- PS2 controllers w/remapping (Toodles' FGWidget converter, eTokki converter)
- USB converters (Non 360, Undamned on SRK)
- Consolised CPS2 systems (Same as above)
- Cheaper superguns (a supergun from Arcadeforge with PSU and simple sync cleaner can be purchased for less than $200)
- Playstation controller support on PCBs (MCCthulhu, Akishop PS360+)
Superguns are quickly becoming the definitive solution. I am also continually researching and developing Superguns myself for the optimal and most robust setups, and will gladly share any knowledge regarding the topic, especially considering the local interest (QLD and VIC organisers have already expressed their interest and preference to this platform).
My RecommendationOf course, for the reasons above, my initial recommendation would be to use Superguns at majors. As I understand that at this point in time this may not be feasible, Dreamcasts would be the next option, or PS2 HSF2 in S/X modes. I feel that the two consolised ports should be used until Supergun tech is more established, and used with PS1/2 controllers, such that they may be used with Superguns.
For home use, I would recommend GGPO - which is and has been for the past 3~4 years been the current system for ST now anyway. I doubt anyone who has or will use GGPO would want to use classic mode on 360, considering the myriad benefits of the platform.
Finally, I've raised this issue earlier to some OzHadou staff but if you want to support the community and other games, the forum definitely should have a 'Other Fighting Games' forum. Currently, members are relegated to posting along side posts in the 'Random Discussion' forum, or, more likely, not posting at all. The fact that this has never existed since the forum upgrade needs to be addressed if and when a consensus is reached, although from the points above I feel the choice is pretty clear for both players and organisers.
Topic: Super Street Fighter 2 Super Turbo/HDR - Feedback (Read 17957 times)