Author Topic: Vergil - Finishing touches  (Read 8519 times)

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Offline jfizzman

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Vergil - Finishing touches
« on: February 21, 2012, 05:29:19 PM »
Over the OHN weekend vergil was a dominant character in both tournament and mms.  A lot of people want to pick up vergil for their team or learn about his capabilities in order to be able to defeat him.  One thing i have noticed about both american and australian vergil players is that the combos that you do once you get the hit are either cut too short or are unnecessarily difficult.  Both these outcomes seem to also result in not acheiving optimal damage or one touch deaths.  In this thread I will illustrate some of the key factors of vergil combos including sword loop variations, combos with/without otg assists and dhcing into vergil from ground and air combos.  Most of this information has been tested but not to the fullest extent so any better or easier improvements that I or you guys discover will be used to amend the following information.  The combo data displayed here assumes that basic vergil combo and moveset knowledge are known so if you don't know the basic combo before the loops please go to one of those strat sites like shoryuken.com and learn that before coming back to this thread.  Will start off with optimal combos leading to the sword loops. :D 

Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 05:30:20 PM »
why are u sharing this info.


quid pro quo etc.
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Offline jfizzman

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 05:55:12 PM »
To optimise damage in this game it is generally best to do as many H hits as possible early in the combo while leaving out as many L or M hits as you can.  Then as hsd (hit stun decay) maxes out you want to pile on as many hits as you can.  The following combos try to follow those principals while keeping things easy.
So there are two bnb lead ups that vergil players should know to acheive optimal damage while still remaining consistent for all characters and easy enough to perform in high pressure situations (once u get the hang of it of course, don't expect to just get this shid down 100 percent in one day).  The first one is the most important since vergil does not require an assist to perform this. It goes a little something like this:

M, H, toward + H,  :dpf: L xx (mash H for teleport down), super jump, M, H, S, land, H, toward + H xx  :qcb: M, crouching H xx swords super and hold L during freeze animation.

The key to the easy vergil combos as you will notice further on is in the normal crouching H.  This move is gdlike in vergil combos since it keeps the opponent in a hit state until they fall on the ground for the soft knockdown.  This means that if you can keep your opponent in the air you can defy hsd with the help of crouching H and this is one of the main secrets in keeping the vergil combos extremely long and damaging.

Offline jfizzman

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 05:57:48 PM »
why are u sharing this info.


quid pro quo etc.

Im sick of seeing vergil players work too hard.  Also to strengthen the marvel community by encouraging knowledge sharing.  Plus you already finished your mms and retired anyway so no point in holding data back.

Offline jarop

Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 06:07:19 PM »
why are u sharing this info.


quid pro quo etc.

Im sick of seeing vergil players work too hard.

lol

Good stuff though, if we're going to be our best at SS we should try and level up the community as a whole.

I wouldn't mind seeing a discussion on when to cancel into DT vs swords. I know there are different schools of thought on this but IMO they're both good depending on the situation.
PUSH ALL THE BUTTONS

Offline jfizzman

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 06:20:51 PM »
Anyway, the second combo actually has two parts.  The first part is the normal hit confirm into basic launcher.  The second is actually the exact same combo as a helmet breaker punish combo.  This combo requires an otg assist.  Wesker's samurai edge assist will be used in this example.  As if any of us are not gonna have wesker on your team like the frauds that we are.

First part -

M, H, toward + H(omit if opponent is airborne), S xx super jump, H, down + H (Helmet they ass)

Second part/helmet breaker punish (universal version) -

After helmet call wesker assist and hold L, crouching H, toward + H xx  :qcb: M, H, S, H xx release L for roundtrip, crouching H then delay slightly,  :qcf: L for three hits, hit confirm ball into swords super (hold L during freeze animation).

Second part/helmet breaker punish (midscreen version) -

After helmet call wesker assist hold up, jump H, hold L for round trip while jump H is in hit frames, H, toward + H xx  :qcb: M, H, S, H xx release L for roundtrip, crouching H then delay slightly,  :qcf: L for three hits, hit confirm ball into swords super (hold L during freeze animation).


The holding L for roundtrip part is only a guideline as to when you would want to start holding L.  You can start holding L anytime before that but probably not after since you might not have enough time to charge a roundtrip.

BTW if you have vergil on the screen with the otg assist ready for you, you shouldn't do the fundamental combo with the :dpf: L launch since this does way more damage and is much more easier to do since you are just starting with a wesker style l, m, h, s xx sj. m, m, h, s combo(looking at Toxy).  Last time I checked this does close to 1mil damage using two sword loops and almost meter gain neutral ie. starting the combo with 1 bar will leave you with almost one bar left even though you did two sword supers as long as you hit them with the whole combo.  Obviously the damage will scale slightly if you start with an L and/or catch it off an assist but thats still a ton of DA MA GE to own I don't know lets say a morrigan for example (Arnold you are so screwed, this is the second wolverine) without using x factor. 

Also it is important to let the  :qcf: L hit three times to build enough meter for second swords super especially if you just hit them with the helmet with exactly one bar of stock.  Easy mode sword loop variations are next. ;D :D

Offline jfizzman

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 07:08:09 PM »
Now we go on to the fun part.  The easy mode loop variations for different situations and outcomes.  Most of these loops cannot be consistently done in the corner because the roundtrip disappears off the screen too early and doesn't hit the opponent enough.  This is usually not a problem since a wall bounce is usually used before proceeding into the first sword loop which actually gives vergil some space to work with.  These loop combos start after the freeze animation of the sword super.  Make sure you are holding L like you are a fraud zero.

1. Loop continuer - This sword loop variation is used to extend the combo into another sword super loop.

 :dpf: M, walk back a bit, release L for roundtrip, crouching H, slight delay into  :qcf: L, hit confirm ball into sword super holding L during freeze.

2. Loop finisher(midscreen) - Used to finish loops and kill people.

 :dpf: M, walk back a bit, release L for roundtrip, crouching H, slight delay into  :dpf: M.

3. Loop finisher(corner) - Same as above but in corner since above combo won't work consistently in corner situations.

 :dpf: M,  :dpf: M

You probably will start doing these combos and sometimes find that your opponent might fall out during the first  :dpf: M.  This is because the opponent was still bouncing on the ball before the sword hyper was activated.  If this is the case crouch a little before doing the first  :dpf: M to bring the opponent lower.  Otherwise if it is spot on, do the  :dpf: M straight away.  I think thats all you guys will need to figure it out on your own but if you guys want other information or want to post something legit please let me know so I can think about it and maybe put it up if I can be bothered.  You guys might also want to make a vergil thread and link this thread to it or whatever.  Just start sharing some of the love people.  And keep it cheap.  Information that is too legit will be banned from this thread(looking at baxter).  Must be cheap.  Peace out for now.  Go body someone.  ;D ;D

P.S. - Pending on Antman/Toxy approval
 


Offline jfizzman

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 07:33:46 PM »
There is one more thing to know that is pretty gay.  The ability to dhc into vergil from an air super (max wesker for example since all weskers should have t.o.d. combos without x factor right?).  Basically when your first character's super is about to finish the last hits you dhc into vergil,  :qcb: L teleport, then do double  :dpf: M.  To take more advantage of this make sure your first character doesn't do a ground bounce and/or a wall bounce.  If they did a wall bounce but no ground bounce then the second  :dpf: M in the loop will ground bounce your opponent and you can follow with a crouching H xx sword super.  Otherwise if they didn't do a ground or wall bounce then you can do crouching H, towards + H xx  :qcb: M, crouching H xx sword super instead.  I think with a wesker wall bounce combo into super into two vergil loops this does 1.1 mil give or take 100k.  Sorry wesker haters. :P :P ;D ;D :o

Offline Slapper Joe

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 08:07:24 PM »
Thread needs more akuma assist.

Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 08:31:36 PM »
why are u sharing this info.


quid pro quo etc.

Im sick of seeing vergil players work too hard.  Also to strengthen the marvel community by encouraging knowledge sharing.  Plus you already finished your mms and retired anyway so no point in holding data back.

lol i just think its more important to just hold on to the advantage

its not like qld massively disseminated info/tech after last ohn

(Laiger being the exception)


idk maybe i just see it that its better for syd to be > rest of aus than aus to be better as a whole
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Offline Age

Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 12:00:18 AM »
Not a Vergil fan, but it looks like nice stuff. Glad some people are willing to share.

Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 09:47:09 AM »
Good stuff Jfizz, good to see I'm getting my moneys worth haha.
Stop sandbagging.

Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 10:05:29 AM »
why are u sharing this info.


quid pro quo etc.

Im sick of seeing vergil players work too hard.  Also to strengthen the marvel community by encouraging knowledge sharing.  Plus you already finished your mms and retired anyway so no point in holding data back.

lol i just think its more important to just hold on to the advantage

its not like qld massively disseminated info/tech after last ohn

(Laiger being the exception)


idk maybe i just see it that its better for syd to be > rest of aus than aus to be better as a whole

Lol KG we never withheld any information from anyone even interstaters. If people asked for advice and questions we would answer it. We never hid our teams as well.

@JFizz - I like it my friend.

I guess when you do the harder combos with Vergil it would be for metre in the end would it not be the case?

Offline jfizzman

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 10:41:20 PM »
@low blow - the harder combos will give u a little bit of extra meter, a little bit of extra damage and a lot of extra inconsistency most of the time, thats why only easy combos on this thread

@tom - i love getting value out of your money son ;D ;D ;D

Offline jfizzman

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Re: Vergil - Finishing touches
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2012, 05:38:48 AM »
DHCing into vergil

One of the main reasons a lot of teams have vergil in second slot is due to the amount of damage u can get off a dhc into him.  He is a master of defying hsd and getting that damage while still building great amounts of meter.  He is especially optimal when dhced from characters like magneto and zero that can do high damage combos without using wall or ground bounces and get the opponent to the corner.  I already explained the common dhc combos in the post about wesker tod but there is another combo that is a little harder but still definitely tourney doable and adds extra damage making tods only require two bars.   So this how it goes:


dhc into swords (hold l), dp m, dp m (ground bounce), toward + h straight away and slight pause as opponent wall bounces away from u and corner, release round trip and do one of the sword loop options as listed above.


Of course zero for example only needs one bar to kill anyway but a lot of times u dont wanna do the lightning loop cause tking a raikusen is a pain in the ass and can easily be dropped.  So instead u can activate sougenmu then instead of proceeding with loop u dhc into vergil then do above combo.  Its much more easier, consistent, damaging and leaves vergil with extra special hadangeki assist to do gay mixups with.  The toward + h is done straight away as this is the best way to make sure the opponent doesn't stay in the corner as this is undesired for round trip combo.

So yeh just a little something for u guys wanting that extra damage required for tod while still keeping it consistent.  Cause you would rather make sure the problem dies in one combo then risking extra mixups and giving them the chance to comeback.  Dont let your opponent play.