Author Topic: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4  (Read 39802 times)

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Offline Heavy Weapons

Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« on: September 04, 2012, 02:47:35 AM »
I've come to a number of conclusions in my 4 years of playing street fighter 4 competitively. Before i go on though, I'd firstly like to warn people off. If you don't want to be a good player and play just casually for fun then this is in no way, shape or form going to help you. So i suggest that you don't bother reading this if your not serious. Many people say they are serious about it but in reality are only fooling themselves.
    Now then, many people on this forum know me and a fair few were around to see how bad i was in my early stages. I was by no means a natural at fighting games. I could beat friends but that wasn't really saying much. I had never played against people who actually understood beyond inputs and anti airing. Below is an example of how shit i was.



Some of you might be wondering what is the point of this post. I truly believe that Australia should be way better then what we are currently at this game. I'm sick and tired of Australia not leveling up. We honestly have a real small group of good players which to me is absolute rubbish. Australia has a decent player base. Why are we so bad at this game? This question has been asked more then once and not only in this game , I'm sure it's been asked with other fighting games. But I think sf4 really is disappointing because we actually have had so many tournaments , we've had a bigger player base compared to other places in the world. We have exposure to internationals and big stage with tournaments like, Shadowloo, Ohn and Bam. So why the hell are we going nowhere? Usually for a region to become strong at something it requires a number of things a)Facility b) Competition c) The hunger or passion. Now i know that not everybody is going to become as good as the next person. But they are regions in the world that have way smaller communities then ours and are on a better level. Many people use internet connection as an excuse , which i think plays a very little roll. Others say our community is too small. When we had 500 odd turn up to shadowloo (SSF4AE) now if we deduct even 100 which is being generous for guests. We still have 400 players. even 300 is alot . I feel there is many players stuck at what we call in Melbourne on silver level, meaning 1 step underneath the upper echelon.

     I see so much potential, that it saddens me to see this community not doing as well as it should. We get very little respect apart from a handful of players and that really angers me.   
I really don't think that it would take long at all before our scene got way stronger. This is the exact reason i am making this post. I'm beginning to get bored playing the same 10-12 ppl with my main and really trying to win. Not trying to say that only 10 players can beat me but i mean in ft10 with me really trying there's simply not enough serious threats. I hope people don't think i am trying to come off as arrogant or cocky because i am not at all. I just want people to get better.

    I've stated various reasons in different types of avenues such as, threads, interviews and discussions here in melbourne. I however never gave a full breakdown. Toxy posted some helpful tips a while back about counterhits and option selects. people are definitely here to help in any way we can. I started the tube fighter thread which was used a little bit.. It really should have had a lot more happen in there. I write this in a kind of last ditch effort to revive the scene i love. SF4 has been a great game for me as well as many others. I just wanna see us get to a good level and show ppl what Australia is made of. We've had glimpses of what we can do against some top players. Robsux Toxy HumanBomb ShangTsung Phero Myself Sol Carnage Somniac etc. All of us have at one stage been a threat to some of the international players or beaten them. Now i know more of us can be.

 So where do i think we are going wrong? I believe its really two things. Approach and Mind state.
I want to use Shang Tsung as an example, that guy was only an online warrior and ppl laughed and made fun of him but look at the guy now. He's one of our best damn players now!That shit makes me proud as hell. Why is there only one Shang tsung? what ever happened to people having determination? I understand that people have jobs, families, or other commitments but so do the top players. You don't have to grind forever to become a good player. I also showed you my video vs trickster at my first ohn. I was terrible but improved and learnt a lot.


                                                            Approach:
Most people approach this game in the wrong way. They do not try to learn it properly. I've seen people pretty much just take shortcuts or learn a playstyle with a certain character to beat X amount of ppl. Sf4 is a basic game with technicalities to it. I believe if someone were to really think about it and apply themselves they could become a good player within 6months if you've been playing the game longer then one year that is. I think other ppl's approach can also effect another player. So i believe you shouldn't bother playing ppl who are not serious about the game unless your trying to train to beat scrubs who will just do whatever. So whats the right approach? Learn your character properly, winning doesn't mean a great deal if it was by chance or fluke. That brings me on to Mindstate.

                                                                  Mind state:
Now I am notorious for bitching about bad matchups... I'm pretty certain everybody at one stage has complained about a match up. Maybe not publicly but i'd be very surprised if you never complained. If you've never complained it means you don't care and you shouldn't be reading this anyway. It's good to be pissed off about a bad matchup but theres two types of players. player a) does something about it. player b) accepts losing and continues complaining. If you are not trying to learn or innovate techniques to give yourself a better chance at winning then your just a sook.
Your mindstate is the single most important part. 1 monumental thing that I feel holds players back from leveling up is their settling for small success. For example myself and various other top players have had this conversation "When i play that zangief player, he just does whatever loses 20 matches then wins once by pure chance lucky stupidity or whatever and he's satisfied" If somebody beats you 20 games and you win once and are satisfied then 1 of 2 things. Your an idiot or somebody who has very low ambition. Again low ambition, you wouldn't be still reading this by now.  I'm not saying that you should not be happy that you won a game against that person but be happy if you played well not randomed them out. Be happy but not content. Another mindstate issue ive seen is people avoiding things. I.e Avoid blocking a mixup or bad matchup or doing the harder combos etc. Now by avoiding something does it make it go away? NO it doesn't! I hated fighting many characters before. But kept at it and usually i've overcome the problem. Another example is i used to not do the hard combos or confirm from counterhits. So what did i do? set up the training dummy on random counterhit to improve my confirmations. Anyways I've posted my thoughts maybe I'm wasting my time maybe i'm not. I just had to get certain thoughts off my mind because lately i've been bored of this game and get quiet annoyed at how scrubby aus is becoming and the amount of respect we are yet to receive. Our tourney organizers are A grade i think it's time to reward their hard work by given them some hero's to defend our shores.


       Feel free to post your thoughts and if i might have missed anything i just wrote this from the heart and i really want people to try beyond that i'm not trying to be an elitist or whatever. I just wanna enjoy playing the game and see others level up.


peace.
Oi Oi Moi. Best Crunch Heavy Punch in melbourne! fimblers and fimblettes get slapped silleh!

GirlsDigMyScore

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Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 03:02:33 AM »
HOW CAN I SOAR LIKE AN EAGLE WHEN I'M SURROUNDED BY TURKEYS?

Offline Heavy Weapons

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2012, 03:04:16 AM »
If other eagles are flying then why are you still stuck on the ground?
Oi Oi Moi. Best Crunch Heavy Punch in melbourne! fimblers and fimblettes get slapped silleh!

Offline Gaaraki

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 06:01:18 AM »
I know this feel, i never really had a chance to play street fighter 4 with people other than family and friends and even one of my cousins is difficult to beat but still ive been playing sf since i was 6 but i think its kinda sad that im at a fail level, umm i turned up to BHBD once and got completely destroyed if i remember it was a casual match against burnout's oni but then that day i realized there was a lot more to the game than just mashing specials and hoping to win and it has increased my game but the only problem is that i havent gained much. since breaking old habbits is diffcult. but getting owned by the guys at shadowlooHQ it opend my eyes and made me open up for improvement and i have been playing a lot more lately but i can tell you it will take me a while to get to the level you guys are currently at since i had a late start but im not completely terrible at the game >.<

Offline Crazy FreeRider

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 08:26:44 AM »
Word Heavy!
i believe the biggest part is learning your matchups and your opponent (being able to read and predict). Once you have that you can beat them with almost any character doing just basic shit without really having to learn to combo properly ala Myself. People really need to put more time into studying the game as well as playing it, instead of wondering why something happened, figure it out. This is a game of predictions, reactions with a touch of randomness.

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 09:18:10 AM »
Part of the problem with FG’s is that they have a precipitously steep learning curve, arguably one of the toughest there is online (perhaps only equaled by RTS’s like Starcraft) which acts as a barrier not only for getting into the scene in the first place, but actually trying to level up. I have friends who were interested in SSFIV and did play it casually, but gave up because it was just too damn frustrating to try and learn when they got bodied the second they stepped online.

I think it’s a valid point you’re making. I often lament we don’t have a bigger community than we do now, and what we do have has a very sharp divide in terms of skill level. I don’t think the problem is will, I think it’s more that our community lacks…well, community. How many times do we try to help people train up or offer advice beyond the token “You did X when you should have done X”? How do we offer to help people other than just point them at forums and tell them to do some research?

This is the problem that the community faces, in my opinion. If we want a better pool of players to compete against, we need to help each other a lot more than we’re doing now. Because for every one person who gets really hype about FG’s and strives to improve, there’s ten who just get scared off, or can’t be bothered to improve when there’s no incentive for putting up with the people who troll you in a match, or send you random trash talk afterward. We need to get the word out that places like this exist, and there are people who are willing to spend the time in helping you improve if you’re hungry enough. People will get passionate about this game and others if we give them a reason for it, and the hope that they can get better.

Offline Mike The TV

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2012, 11:23:45 AM »
zgnoud had a really good post in the PC thread that relates: http://forum.ozhadou.net/index.php?topic=6600.msg1272581#msg1272581

And to some degree, I think Red_Gambit also nailed a sizable chunk of it.

What incentive would it take for top players to sit down and play extended sets with newer/midrange players with the aim of levelling people up and offering extensive feedback? Why is it not worth their time, and how can we make it worth their time? In Melbourne, I only ever see Vitriol and Phero do this freely and often, and I'm really glad they do, because for us in the middle of the pack, going it alone or just with other midrange players leads to slower progress, and a more tedious, more time consuming, less enjoyable experience.

And when the experience is less enjoyable, that's when I start thinking of all the other things I can learn to be excellent at with the time I'm devoting to SF4.

Plenty of us are willing to learn, who else is willing to teach and speed the process of turning Australia into an SF4 threat?

Chains only as strong as their weakest links, et cetera.
"He'll just keep crouching there. I can jump in free. Nothing can possibly go wrong. He's Dee Jay, my character is higher tier than Dee Jay."
- Opponents, about me.

Offline insomniac

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Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 12:00:54 PM »
There may be people wanting to learn, but the game is nearing if not 4 years old by now. There are numerous tutorials out there that teach the technical aspects of the game, probably better than someone in Australia could show you.
People just don't use the tools they have available to them.

If you want to learn the game, use training mode, identify anytime you have a problem with something and go through all of your options and your spacing. You don't need to play 3000 times to understand concepts you can repeat in training mode.
Nearly all of the "top players" have tried to teach people, there is a point at which there needs to be prior knowledge for the teachings to be successful.

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 12:47:44 PM »
I think it's a little easy to say "Stuff is out there, people just need to go learn" after all, that's what we've been doing up until this point, and you can see where it's gotten us.

Yes, there is a metric assload of resources out there for people who want to look. You could lose days of your life watching tutorial videos on Youtube. You can go through all the Eventhubs and SRK forums and find a mountain of valuable information. But that doesn't change the fundamental question: Why would you do it?

For people who are passionate about SSFIV, the answer is pretty easy. They want to get better. They want to place in tournaments. Bragging rights. They do it for love of the game. There's any number of reasons when you get down to it.

But what about people who are just casual gamers, who are content getting the odd win against scrubs? There's no reason at all when you think about it. There's no COD "Prestiege" to be earnt. No unlockables. No currancy. Very few achievements (and they're not hard to get) or anything that really motivates them to try harder. BP and PP are just numbers, and are as arbitrary as ranking up. There's no valid reason to try harder when you look from that perspective.

If we want new blood in the community, or people to graduate from being casual players to being truly passionate about improving, we can't rely on people simply acting on their own initiative. I've been playing SSFIV for since it's release, and I only found out about this forum a couple of weeks ago (fortunately because somone was kind enough to link me from SRK), which shows just how far we have to go in terms of sharing information.

Australia does not have the kind of scene other countries have for FG's, so relying on their approach of making new players go through the baptism of fire that is online play and trying to earn respect is not practical or effective. I firmly believe we need to be more proactive in cultivating the scene. 

Offline maxsze90

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 01:08:02 PM »
I'm trying to get better! I'M TRYING AS HARD AS I CAN!

Offline Mike The TV

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 01:11:39 PM »
In Melbourne, we've just had Pyro doing KOF instructional classes for new players, and the VF5 community is pushing to have stations at ShadowLogic set aside week-round for them to specifically run long sets, discuss them, and generally train up for BAM. No one questions that that's going to lead to improvements if not also good tournament results.

No one's telling them that it's a stupid idea, that they don't know enough for it to be effective, and that they should go watch Youtube videos or just tool around in training mode instead.

The fact that SF4 is an older game doesn't suddenly mean that that kind of approach has no value for it also. It's fine if you don't want to participate in something like that, but if everyone else doesn't, the end result is predictable.
"He'll just keep crouching there. I can jump in free. Nothing can possibly go wrong. He's Dee Jay, my character is higher tier than Dee Jay."
- Opponents, about me.

Offline insomniac

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Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 01:30:18 PM »
People should have the responsibility for their own improvement, just like in life. No one said that if the "top players" were asked questions that they would deny replying. It's also not their responsibility to teach everyone basics of the game.
Not only that, a lot of information regarding SSF4 is character specific, such as safe jumps and unblockables - do you expect people not using your character to teach you that?

I'm not putting Pyro's efforts on blast, he put a lot of time, sweat and tears into his sessions, but very few people showed initiative or improvement and the numbers did drop. His main goal was to get people interested in the game, and some people did pick it up.

It's somewhat of a different goal in SSF4, there is a large scene and it is considerably larger than other countries. People have been playing for a long period of time, but only a very few number of them are to be considered "good".

Those that have the drive and the passion to learn to improve for the most part have to varying levels of success, and I doubt that any of those people will waste time teaching someone who is not like minded.
As you put it there is no incentive, and it's not up to others to find it for you. If people want to improve they can ask questions, find the information and use it. Existing players are more than forthcoming about information when asked.

That is where the prior knowledge has to come in, know what you are asking and you will get a much better answer.

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 01:49:56 PM »
sf4 is also reaching its end, its been out a long time.. the only people that play are the "hardcore" players, who know the game inside out, the "average online player" who knows how combos, links and anti-airing works but know nothing of things like footsies, yomi, oki (which, admittedly i had no idea of either until a couple of days ago thanks to the guys on the Pc thread), frame data, ect. and the casual player who could care less about winning or losing.

and of the "Hardcore" players, only a small few are willing to offer advice on how to play a specific matchup or how to punish blanka ball ;)

The more i play this game the more i feel like playing SFxT, the only reason i still play this game is to run sets with somebody or just have a few matches with some people on my friend list, and with games like TTT2 and P4A/U coming out soon this game might just die in the online community (of course it wont) but there will be alot more variety and the more casual players will try those out and there will be even less people attending sf4 events and trolling online.

This post might have been posted a little too late.. sure, majority of sf4 players in australia need to improve.. but australia has never been elite at anything that is competed worldwide, other than maybe netball........

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 01:57:25 PM »
I think it’s premature to say that SSFIV is nearing the end of it’s life. Until a couple of years ago, MvC2 was still being played at Evo, and the only reason they stopped was because MvC3 was released.

Granted, the game is four years old and there’s a new generation of consoles looming in the next couple 12-24 months. But Capcom has made no secret of the fact that they’re concerned the market is becoming over-saturated with FG’s, as it was when SF3 was released. Given that SFxT hasn’t exactly set the world on fire, I think that SSFIV has a decent chunk of life left in it simply due to the fact that it’s still going strong, and Capcom will have to think long and hard before releasing their next SF title. 

Re: Why Australia is Bad at Street Fighter 4
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 02:20:20 PM »

What incentive would it take for top players to sit down and play extended sets with newer/midrange players with the aim of levelling people up and offering extensive feedback? Why is it not worth their time, and how can we make it worth their time? In Melbourne, I only ever see Vitriol and Phero do this freely and often, and I'm really glad they do, because for us in the middle of the pack, going it alone or just with other midrange players leads to slower progress, and a more tedious, more time consuming, less enjoyable experience.

And when the experience is less enjoyable, that's when I start thinking of all the other things I can learn to be excellent at with the time I'm devoting to SF4.

Plenty of us are willing to learn, who else is willing to teach and speed the process of turning Australia into an SF4 threat?

Chains only as strong as their weakest links, et cetera.

you don't play with top players straight away because whatever top players do you won't be able to digest it quickly enough to utilise it.

instead play with same range of players and stop them from doing their retarded abusive shit and progress to beating up another better player in your range.

that's how top player improve.

information is shared in youtube/srk/iplaywinner/ozhadou, already teaching materials is plenty.

to get recognized you have to prove it. instead of fucking getting someone to help all the learning phase.

if the mentality is all about getting someone to teach you then.........>>>> FUCK THAT LOSER - jay wilson
Cherish the knockdown. Stop the fimble.